Transport for London Bill [Lords]: Revival

Perhaps I might make some progress on what has happened and on timescales before I give way.

The hon. Gentleman has pointed out that a revival motion is needed because the Bill did not succe...

Clearly the process in the other place has taken some time, and there were various applications t...

I am grateful to my colleague from Harrow for giving way. I recognise that he has lived with the ...

I am wary of straying too far from the principle of the revival of the Bill, because I know full ...

My colleague will forgive me for being a little uncharitable and suggesting that his answer about...

I thank my colleague for stressing the point about Harrow-on-the-Hill station. I know from my use...

The hon. Gentleman seems to have great influence with TfL, so will he also take up the cause of C...

I am rapidly taking up a number of causes across London. I know that Caledonian Road tube station...

rose—

I give way to another hon. Lady from London, who no doubt has an aspect of London transport to br...

I must correct the hon. Gentleman: I represent York Central, but I am in London today, as we all ...

If the hon. Lady permits me to advance further in my speech, I will refer to that issue in a few ...

I note that the hon. Gentleman has prioritised Harrow-on-the-Hill station when it comes to improv...

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. TfL has clearly been investing quite dramatically in...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am going to move on to the key points about the Bill.

The Bill has only four substantive ...

The hon. Gentleman talks about oversight by Members of this House. Does he acknowledge the concer...

There is clearly oversight by the Mayor of London, the Assembly and the Assembly’s transport comm...

The partnership might be overseen when first established, but will there be anything to stop the ...

The initial set-up will be scrutinised by both Houses. If there were to be any substantial change...

Is there anything specific in the Bill that would stop the control of a partnership moving from o...

The hon. Lady might wish to probe that point further on the revival of the Bill when we debate pa...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will not give way any more.

The discrete scope of the Bill should be taken as indicative ...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

No, I am not giving way any more.

TfL is working with the Mayor, London boroughs and the co...

I am not giving way any more.

In view of the benefits that this Bill will bring, it is esse...

I am concerned about clause 5, in particular, and the idea of limited liability partnerships. As ...

When my hon. Friend describes the scope of limited liability, is it her understanding that the li...

I believe that that is exactly the position. This legal instrument was created in order to help t...

My hon. Friend is asking extremely pertinent questions, but I wonder who is going to answer them....

I genuinely think so, because, as the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) has said, we are...

That is a really important point. Too often, people talk about housing numbers and bandy around t...

I have to say that Islington residents who are on what could be seen as high incomes are very con...

People in my borough of Westminster now need an income of £77,000 to be able to afford what the M...

The point is this: once the land is gone, it is gone for ever. Once these luxury flats are built,...

We are being distracted from one of the Bill’s main points, which is of concern to the hon. Lady’...

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. It brings us back to another rumour, which is th...

Does my hon. Friend agree that risk comes in many different forms? The Evening Standard revealed ...

All of us have probably been down the river and seen all the developments that are happening. Mem...

I apologise to the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for appearing uncharitable to him—o...

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Essentially, the sponsor of the Bill and TfL are saying,...

My hon. Friend hits the issue on the head. Of course the value of the assets needs to be maximise...

My concern is that we will be the partner who takes unlimited risks. My constituents will not get...

My hon. Friend rightly talks about risk. A further risk is the partner that TfL goes into busines...

It is as though the risk is being nationalised and the profit privatised. That is what is happeni...

A further risk is that profits for some of those property developers may be invested offshore and...

Many questions need to be asked about the status of the partners that TfL will be able to join in...

My fare-paying, tax-paying constituents— and the hon. Lady’s—will want to know whether future pro...

I do not know that it would. It is vague in the extreme. In my view, it is inappropriate for a pu...

I realise that the hon. Lady has concerns, so I will try to be helpful. To answer the questions s...

I do not know what the conditions are in those limited partnerships. If the hon. Gentleman wishes...

From my limited investigations, I understand that Sheffield entered into a local housing company ...

As the hon. Gentleman said, there was some form of shared risk, but there is no shared risk in th...

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer) for raising the exam...

There we are. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. I believe we ought to be focusing on whether ...

We have heard examples of investments in other places in other cities, but is there not a stark d...

Certainly, the way things seem at the moment is that the property market in London only goes upwa...

My hon. Friend mentions asbestos. The site that begat all this nonsense in the first place is the...

Yes. Representing and living in the area that I do, I could not agree with my hon. Friend more. T...

My hon. Friend, like me, heard the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) say that TfL should...

If we do not use public land to build affordable housing, what land will we use? If we sell off t...

I will attempt to answer my hon. Friend’s question, although, again, it would be better if the sp...

That is very interesting. If that is counsel’s opinion, why can TfL not allay our fears? It is a ...

If the scenario my hon. Friend paints, of £700 million being taken out of TfL’s budget in the spe...

My hon. Friend tempts me. I understand what he says, and there are times when London MPs argue fo...

rose—

I will give way in a moment!

London is a driving force, so it seems a ridiculous idea that ...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. She is being tempted down a particular path, so I...

I am very grateful to my comrade for bringing me back from the brink. In those circumstances, the...

I wonder whether I can help my hon. Friend by putting it slightly differently. As London MPs we a...

That, in summary, is my objection to the Bill. It seems to me that we need to call out its true i...

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), who has been an assiduou...

The Minister says that the Bill is not a back-door deal to let in various nefarious characters, b...

Like many Labour Members, the hon. Gentleman is displaying a complete disregard for the scrutiny ...

Will the Minister give way?

I want to make some progress.

That disregard does not sound a very strong note of confidenc...

I want to make some progress.

TfL is an organisation that manages, extremely effectively, m...

The Minister does not represent a London constituency. That is not her fault; we all have our cro...

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned the Financial Times, but he will have to wai...

Will the Minister give way?

No, I will not.

We are trying to find flexible ways to allow the public sector to use its a...

Will the Minister give way?

No, I will not.

TfL has already implemented a savings and efficiency programme that will en...

Will the Minister give way?

Will the Minister give way?

No, I will not.

Those constituents are delighted that fares have not been charged for child...

I will not give way.

However, TfL still needs to continue to identify further savings, and ...

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am greatly enjoying the Minister’s performance and h...

Order. As the hon. Gentleman knows, that is not a point of order. It is entirely up to the person...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and, to be clear, I am afraid that we heard all sorts of rather ...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I have given way once to the hon. Gentleman.

We believe that giving TfL greater flexibility...

rose—

Oh, do tempt me so I can make some more jokes about vans.

rose—

I will take an intervention from the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West) inst...

I thank the Minister for giving way. Does she accept that transport providers are often not the b...

I am a bit confused by the hon. Lady’s intervention. I think what she is suggesting is we should ...

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way.

The hon. Lady has just talked about TfL runn...

I do not know when the hon. Lady last took the tube, but there are such things as Oyster and cont...

I wonder whether the hon. Lady saw the Evening Standard on Wednesday of last week. It reported a ...

I did not see that report—[Interruption.] Well, I do not read the Standard every day; I apologise...

Will the Minister give way?

May I just finish what I am saying? I will be delighted to hear more speeches after that.

T...

I am not a London MP—

No? You’re kidding!

I think the Minister has recognised that fact from my accent.

I am not a London MP, and I b...

In the light of what my hon. Friend has just said, does he understand the surprise felt by London...

I fully agree. The fares issue was absolutely outrageous. Does anyone really think that, if this ...

My hon. Friend should not feel intimidated because he is not from London. He would be very welcom...

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. Of course I welcome the opportunity to visit his con...

While my hon. Friend is doing a tour of London’s stations, perhaps he could visit Angel tube stat...

I have never had so many kind invitations in my life. I will enjoy the two visits that have been ...

My hon. Friend could not possibly fail to come to Finsbury Park, because that leads into the Stro...

Order. If we go through this debate station by station, we will be here for a very long time. Thi...

I am pleased that you said that, Madam Deputy Speaker, rather than me making that determination. ...

As a fellow non-London MP—

Shame!

It is a shame, as my hon. Friend says.

Does my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lav...

Of course. I could not put it better myself and I fully agree.

Let me get back to the issue...

The master plan for the Earls Court and west Kensington area shows the construction of 8,000 prop...

That is the point, really. The Bill is about the fact that Transport for London has been totally ...

We all noticed that the Minister did not deny that £700 million might be withheld from TfL, but i...

Again, that is extremely concerning. I am not from the area, but I am sure that such cases have b...

Will my hon. Friend accept as an example what happens now in the private rented sector, as oppose...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention; £75,000 is a king’s ransom to many people. It is no...

I can give my hon. Friend another example of public land that has been frittered away by the Mayo...

I thank my hon. Friend for that fine example. It appears that there is huge potential for land de...

With the exception of my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), who is no longer in hi...

I fully agree with my hon. Friend. Gold-diggers with money to burn will buy the properties, and w...

We talk about outer-London MPs, and there are no more outer-London MPs than those from the north-...

I thank my hon. Friend. That is the point that I have been making from the outset. The essence of...

My hon. Friend rightly focuses on clause 5. Does he agree that the reason there is such freedom i...

Indeed. Although the Bill is not long, it lacks transparency. A limited partnership differs sligh...

Does my hon. Friend agree that those on the Labour Benches would feel much more generous towards ...

That is another excellent intervention that explains what a lot of people in this city are experi...

May I underline the concern that my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine ...

I am not sure I would be comfortable with assurances from the likes of Transport for London on th...

That is a point well made, but if there is land that can be developed, I, for one, would not stan...

That is interesting. It shows that Labour Members are open to the potential development of land, ...

A question has to be posed if there is no guarantee from Transport for London. There is no doubt ...

That raises a whole new question that has not been discussed by anyone on either side of the Hous...

I, like a number of colleagues, am keen to see land released for development, as long as it is fa...

Are not people right to be jaundiced? They are sick to death of austerity. When the Government cl...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need to be very suspicious of those partners. He said ...

I think that it is really wise counsel to scrutinise the qualifications of the people involved wi...

I always enjoy the hon. Gentleman’s speeches, but I just want to reassure him on a couple of poin...

I thank the Minister for that intervention. I am not criticising limited partnerships but the pot...

Is there not also a concern about the stamp duty arrangements that are made on these potential tr...

I am sure that the Minister will have heard what my hon. Friend says about stamp duty and respond...

Again, I would like to give some facts. I cannot answer on stamp duty, which is a good point, but...

I am not sure whether that was an intervention or another speech, but I thank the Minister.

This is not about the private sector per se, but the track record. In a large investment such as ...

That point was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck), who mentioned t...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point. The fact is that our communities are being hollowed ou...

That is a good point. London is a fantastic multi-cultural community, and we welcome people from ...

My hon. Friends and I have dwelled on the experience of Old Oak Common. One would think that TfL ...

Order. There are several Members who still wish to speak. The hon. Gentleman knows that that was ...

I fully agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas). I wonder whether he cou...

I know my hon. Friend is about to conclude, but Transport for London is being saved from itself b...

Madam Deputy Speaker isn’t happy.

Order. Is the hon. Gentleman questioning something?

indicated dissent.

I did not think so.

I fully agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter). This great city ca...

I am glad to be able to make a contribution to this debate. I am not from the city of London—I am...

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in just the past five years, Haringey, which includes Tottenham, ha...

Order. I am not having any more long interventions. There have been far too many.

I have grasped the point of my hon. Friend’s intervention. House prices have escalated out of con...

It is not just about consequences, but about responsibility. In the context of London, particular...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that responsibility has to be at the core not just of this Bil...

My hon. Friend rightly seeks to draw attention to the unintended consequences of the Bill. Does s...

Via Ealing.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) for the invitation to Harr...

Is my hon. Friend aware that key workers cannot gain access to such housing because the key worke...

My hon. Friend makes a reasoned point. The centre of London is becoming void of key workers, teac...

How does the hon. Lady know that?

How do I not know? The Opposition’s job is to scrutinise the Government and these provisions—

rose—

I am not going to give way. I heard the point the Minister made from a sedentary position. It is ...

My hon. Friend began with the important point that the property market has changed so much in rec...

I thank my hon. Friend for sharing that fact. Those figures were not quite on the tip of my tongu...

We know what happens, because TfL has given the game away: a 100% market housing development in z...

Order. Talking about housing tangentially to the Bill, because it has an effect on property and t...

I very much take on board my hon. Friend’s point. There are real questions left hovering over the...

Order. We are not discussing academic economic issues; we are discussing transport.

The Bill is about more than transport and that is why it is a real concern. It is about an organi...

On my hon. Friend’s tour of the metropolis, as she passes through Harrow would she care to join m...

My hon. Friend makes a perfect point.

I wouldn’t say that.

Well, I would—TfL needs that focus. The reality is that the Bill is about the Government’s auster...

I acknowledge, as have others from both sides of the House, that TfL, like many other public bodi...

My hon. Friend is making a very considered speech. He identifies first that we expect TfL to run ...

My hon. Friend is, of course, absolutely right that at the heart of this debate is the issue of w...

I would like to thank my hon. Friend for highlighting the issue of Earls Court. I have the fortun...

My hon. Friend makes a very good point that a number of other Members have made: we are not convi...

My hon. Friend has made a valid point. Conservative Members are making light of what is the most ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I hear Conservative Members saying, from sedentary positions,...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the lack of concern shown by Conservative Members for the conseque...

Order. The hon. Gentleman was not in the Chamber when I made it very clear that we were not discu...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Our worry is that, as a major landowner in London TfL, has...

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Quest...