UK Parliament / Open data

Justice and Home Affairs Opt-out

Debate on Monday, 7 April 2014, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness May of Maidenhead. The answering member was Yvette Cooper.
Agreed to on question.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

579 cc23-93 

Session

2013-14

Department

Home Office

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Show all related items (7)

Proceeding contributions

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c24 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the UK’s 2014 justice and home affairs opt-ou...

Keith Vaz | 579 c25 (Link to this contribution)

It is very unusual for three Committees of the House to agree on every single word of a joint rep...


Show all contributions (157)
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c25 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee for setting out the reason behind the...

Julian Huppert | 579 c25 (Link to this contribution)

Paragraph 85 of the Home Affairs Committee ninth report, which dealt with the matter, states:

...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc25-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will refer to one or two specific measures in relation to that, but as I have just indicated to...

William Cash | 579 c26 (Link to this contribution)

I endorse what the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee said with one qualification. It is not ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c26 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, by definition, the Government’s role is negotiating with the parties I have just indic...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c26 (Link to this contribution)

To ensure the fullest engagement with Parliament, ought not it to be the case that we vote on eve...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c26 (Link to this contribution)

The Government have always seen this clearly as a number of measures, some of which interlink and...

Chris Bryant | 579 c26 (Link to this contribution)

In what precise form will any vote be taken? Would it have legislative effect if the House added ...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc26-7 (Link to this contribution)

The Government will not bring forward legislation to the House on this matter, because that is no...

Keith Vaz | 579 c27 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way a second time. Has she seen reference mad...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c27 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware of a number of reports in the press in relation to documents that, it is claimed, have...

Chris Bryant | 579 c27 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary give way?

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c27 (Link to this contribution)

I will be very generous to the hon. Gentleman.

Chris Bryant | 579 c27 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary is always very generous to me; I have never complained about her generosity an...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc27-8 (Link to this contribution)

It will be an opportunity for this House to debate on the basis of a motion that the Government w...

Nick de Bois | 579 c28 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Home Secretary for many of the changes that are being made, but, as she know...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c28 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s constituent has particular experience of the operation of the European arrest wa...

Gerald Howarth | 579 c28 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has set out the safeguards that will apply to the European arrest warrant, w...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c29 (Link to this contribution)

It is true that the measures that we opt back into will be subject to the European Court of Justi...

Jim Cunningham | 579 c29 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Home Secretary say a little more about the extradition of British citizens to the United...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c29 (Link to this contribution)

I have made a number of improvements. The most obvious one is the introduction of the forum bar. ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c29 (Link to this contribution)

Before my right hon. Friend leaves the subject of proportionality, may I ask whether she has seen...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc29-30 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware of the report in today’s press, but I do not think that it referred to a Council of Mi...

Dominic Raab | 579 c30 (Link to this contribution)

In how many of the recent cases is the European arrest warrant making extradition quicker, rather...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c30 (Link to this contribution)

The argument I make in relation to the European arrest warrant is on both those aspects of its op...

William Cash | 579 c30 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary has given us a number of indications of concerns that have arisen in some memb...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 c31 (Link to this contribution)

No it is not, and I have to say to my hon. Friend that he is not party to the discussions that we...

Julian Huppert | 579 c31 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary is absolutely right to highlight the huge importance of the European arrest wa...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc31-2 (Link to this contribution)

Today’s debate has probably generated a first in parliamentary history: my hon. Friend the Member...

Gerald Howarth | 579 c32 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether the Home Secretary is going to mention any of the other 35 opt-in measures, incl...

Baroness May of Maidenhead | 579 cc32-3 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is referring to CEPOL, which has been based at Bramshill in the United Kingdom in ...

Yvette Cooper | 579 cc33-4 (Link to this contribution)

Today’s debate is one that the Home Secretary and Justice Secretary did not want to have. They ha...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c34 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Lady, who is a member of the Fresh Start group and who, I am sure, mu...

Andrea Leadsom | 579 c34 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Lady regret the fact that the previous Government did not give the British pe...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c34 (Link to this contribution)

I must say to the hon. Lady that we do not think that it is a muddle to have co-operation with Eu...

Jim Cunningham | 579 c34 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary has boasted a lot about giving the people a referendum, but up until the last ...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c34 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has a point, but it is not just about referendums; those on the Front Bench do not...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c35 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot resist giving way to the hon. Gentleman given that he and I ended up agreeing with each ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c35 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the right hon. Lady will agree with me. Does she recall that the former Prime Ministe...

Yvette Cooper | 579 cc35-6 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman seemed to be opting out and opting in all over the place there. The problem wi...

John Redwood | 579 c36 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Lady not understand that if we opt back in to many of the big and serious mea...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c36 (Link to this contribution)

I must say that I am baffled how the right hon. Gentleman could consider a bit of guidance on thi...

John Redwood | 579 c37 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I do not want to deny us that right, but I want us to have that right in a way that is ...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c37 (Link to this contribution)

Unfortunately, the right hon. Gentleman wants us to sign huge numbers of different extradition tr...

Keith Vaz | 579 c37 (Link to this contribution)

On the European arrest warrant, is there not also an obligation on member states to consider thei...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c37 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. We have said that we should argue within Europe fo...

Pete Wishart | 579 c37 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Lady gave a useful list of the fluff and nonsense that we are opting out of, but o...

Yvette Cooper | 579 cc37-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman points to a series of areas where the Government have proposed opting out or w...

Yvette Cooper | 579 c38 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way one last time.

Andrea Leadsom | 579 c38 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Lady clarify for the benefit of the House whether the Opposition would invoke...

Yvette Cooper | 579 cc38-9 (Link to this contribution)

We debated this last year when we had the vote. We do not object to the opt-out in principle. We ...

William Cash | 579 cc39-40 (Link to this contribution)

Before I get into the substance of the arguments on the matter before us, I would like to refer t...

John Redwood | 579 c40 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend confirm that this is a desperately serious matter because if we opt in to any...

William Cash | 579 cc40-1 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, and not only that, those people are no longer able to have recourse to our courts system ...

Chris Bryant | 579 c41 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right. One of the key issues now is how many opt-ins there should be. I wou...

William Cash | 579 cc41-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am rather attracted to the idea of an amendable motion. Indeed, in effect, I have just said so ...

Gerald Howarth | 579 c42 (Link to this contribution)

I am very exercised about the application of the role of the European Court of Justice. As my hon...

William Cash | 579 c42 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am deeply concerned about the matters that my hon. Friend raises. Indeed, the whole questi...

Julian Huppert | 579 c42 (Link to this contribution)

I presume the hon. Gentleman would accept that it is much harder for someone to negotiate when th...

William Cash | 579 cc42-3 (Link to this contribution)

What I am saying is that voting in this House is a test of our democracy. We have already had amp...

Pete Wishart | 579 c43 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman needs to forget about the Liberals, because there is a big elephant sitting in...

William Cash | 579 c43 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think so. The driving force behind the arguments being made by the Conservative part of ...

William Cash | 579 cc43-4 (Link to this contribution)

Let us be in no doubt about that, as my right hon. Friend and distinguished colleague says—and mo...

Keith Vaz | 579 cc44-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee, the hon. Member for S...

John Redwood | 579 c46 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the work that he is doing. Like him, I think that it is fund...

Keith Vaz | 579 cc46-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is a very important point. We need to be able to debate these issues and vote on them. The E...

David Nuttall | 579 cc48-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), the ...

Pete Wishart | 579 cc49-50 (Link to this contribution)

In the House, one always “follows the hon. Gentleman”, which often highlights differing views. It...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c50 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman does not seem to want any of these opt-outs, but is not the great argument for...

Pete Wishart | 579 cc50-2 (Link to this contribution)

This is the difference between me and the hon. Gentleman: he wants to opt out of Europe and be a ...

Andrea Leadsom | 579 cc51-4 (Link to this contribution)

I start by commending my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary for her courage in tackling this pr...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c54 (Link to this contribution)

I am hugely enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech. Is she saying that the House of Lords, in its great...

Andrea Leadsom | 579 cc54-5 (Link to this contribution)

Actually, yes, my hon. Friend is right. I made a similar point to members of the scrutiny Committ...

Chris Bryant | 579 cc55-6 (Link to this contribution)

That was a good joke at the end.

It seems to me that there are an awful lot of ironies in t...

Andrea Leadsom | 579 c56 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman must accept that that argument does not stack up. Let us look at the number of...

Chris Bryant | 579 cc56-7 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am not. The hon. Lady complained that the Government and Members of the House of Lords adva...

Chris Bryant | 579 c57 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way to the 16th century in a moment.

I wholly support the European arrest warr...

Chris Bryant | 579 c57 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot give way to the hon. Lady because I have to give way to the 16th century.

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c57 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is extremely kind. I was going to point out that Ronnie Biggs was in Brazil wh...

Chris Bryant | 579 c57 (Link to this contribution)

I realised that there might be some clever soul in the Chamber. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely ...

Andrea Leadsom | 579 c57 (Link to this contribution)

My point was not that we should not be party to the European arrest warrant; nor was it about the...

Chris Bryant | 579 cc57-8 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the hon. Lady makes, but the problem for her argument is that that op...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c58 (Link to this contribution)

The treaty provides for transitional arrangements if an opt-in has not been agreed, so the fear t...

Chris Bryant | 579 cc58-9 (Link to this contribution)

The provisions on opting back in are not very clear. The one thing that is clear is who has to pa...

Julian Huppert | 579 cc59-60 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to be called to speak, after a characteristically entertaining contribution by t...

Bob Stewart | 579 c60 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of clarification, I thought that the Syria vote was on the option to keep a military o...

Julian Huppert | 579 cc60-1 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right on the technicality that there would have been a second vote, but the pri...

William Cash | 579 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises the question of those people for whom the word “Europe” raises all kind...

Julian Huppert | 579 cc61-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that enlightening quote. He can choose to describe himself how he ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 cc62-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who speaks extremely interestingly on these matters a...

Bob Stewart | 579 c64 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend suggesting, or in agreement, that we might give some power to Europe provided t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c64 (Link to this contribution)

If we opt into any of these measures and they are justiciable by the European Court of Justice, w...

Lord Beith | 579 c64 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has fallen into uncharacteristically misleading language. Over what court does...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 cc64-5 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is fully aware that Parliament can overrule any court in this country by an ...

Mark Reckless | 579 c65 (Link to this contribution)

If we were to take that path, would the resulting international agreement be judiciable in The Ha...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 cc65-8 (Link to this contribution)

In my view, it would be judiciable in our own courts and, like any other international agreement,...

Lord Beith | 579 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I must first explain to the House that I had to leave during the middle of this debate, after the...

Mark Reckless | 579 c68 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Beith | 579 c68 (Link to this contribution)

It is quite early to give way, but very well.

Mark Reckless | 579 c68 (Link to this contribution)

In response to the right hon. Gentleman’s first point, how many of our own citizens—who had done ...

Lord Beith | 579 c68 (Link to this contribution)

One measure that we are opting into ensures that people do not have to be detained in foreign pri...

Lord Beith | 579 cc68-70 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make a little progress.

I want primarily to speak about the Justice Committee’s w...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc70-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith). We have...

Lord Beith | 579 c71 (Link to this contribution)

I was referring to the remarks of the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), who ...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc71-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He is the Chair of the Justice Committee, ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c73 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with what my hon. Friend is saying. Of course, the matter would also become sub...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc73-4 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I was going to come on to the other areas of creeping suprana...

David Nuttall | 579 c74 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with many of the points that my hon. Friend is making. Will he clarify whether, in his op...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc74-5 (Link to this contribution)

Of course it could be reached. I was a Foreign Office lawyer for six years. I would love to obses...

John Hemming | 579 c75 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Dominic Raab | 579 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will correct that impression.

John Hemming | 579 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to say that I do have concerns about the individual cases involving the European arre...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc75-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that I took that intervention. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right.

We need to...

Bob Stewart | 579 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I seek clarification from my hon. Friend. Interpol has a red arrest warrant. Is that in any way c...

Dominic Raab | 579 cc77-8 (Link to this contribution)

I want to be very careful in not passing judgment about any arrest warrant on my hon. Friend that...

Mark Reckless | 579 cc78-80 (Link to this contribution)

It is a privilege and an honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab...

William Cash | 579 c80 (Link to this contribution)

Many examples have been given of perceived injustices as a result of the European arrest warrant ...

Mark Reckless | 579 cc80-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for drawing that example to the attention of the House. It goes t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that this issue is of such constitutional importance that it might be b...

Mark Reckless | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has made a very sensible point. I think that, as we get nearer to the election, we...

William Cash | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

There is yet another example. The Liberal Democrats and the Labour party agreed to allow the Euro...

Mark Reckless | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

I think the Liberal Democrats will ultimately find that as we act to others, so they will act to ...

Pete Wishart | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is becoming awfully exercised about the Liberal Democrats, but the party about...

Lindsay Hoyle | 579 c81 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We do not want to speculate on what will happen in the European elections. We do not want ...

Mark Reckless | 579 c82 (Link to this contribution)

The debate is about the opt-out, Mr Deputy Speaker, and other Members have spoken at length about...

Sadiq Khan | 579 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a very good debate, which has lasted for nearly four hours. We heard 11 speeches from...

William Cash | 579 c83 (Link to this contribution)

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on 27 June 2007—the very day on which he handed the reins ...

Sadiq Khan | 579 cc83-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reminding us all of his excellent memory of historical facts and d...

Michael Connarty | 579 c85 (Link to this contribution)

Unfortunately, I did not have time to give notice that I would participate in this debate; we onl...

Sadiq Khan | 579 cc85-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend gives one of the many examples of how there can be problems operating the EAW in p...

Lord Grayling | 579 c87 (Link to this contribution)

I should like to start by expressing my thanks to all those who have spoken in the debate today. ...

Mark Reckless | 579 c87 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State says that he does not want to hand over powers over Justice and Home Affai...

Lord Grayling | 579 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I shall answer that question by setting out for my hon. Friend where we stand.

Th...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c88 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Lord High Chancellor for giving way, not least because ...

Lord Grayling | 579 c88 (Link to this contribution)

I set out clearly to the House at the start of this process where I believe we stand. We are abso...

William Cash | 579 c88 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend might recall giving evidence to the European Scrutiny Committee in respect o...

Lord Grayling | 579 c89 (Link to this contribution)

Let us be clear: what the last Government said about the charter of fundamental rights was simply...

Michael Connarty | 579 c89 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that we will debate the charter of fundamental rights report, which divided the Europea...

Baroness Primarolo | 579 c89 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We have got the point. Let us not make these interventions too long.

Lord Grayling | 579 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the hon. Gentleman that it would not be right for me to deal with a constituency case at...

Sadiq Khan | 579 c90 (Link to this contribution)

The Justice Secretary just said that he would give the House a chance to “endorse or reject”, but...

Lord Grayling | 579 c90 (Link to this contribution)

We will discuss the detail of that motion in due course, but of course we will give the House the...

Pete Wishart | 579 c90 (Link to this contribution)

There is one group the Justice Secretary has not had any discussions with: the devolved Parliamen...

Lord Grayling | 579 cc90-2 (Link to this contribution)

With respect, what the hon. Gentleman says is simply not right. We have had extensive discussions...

William Cash | 579 c93 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give us a clear indication as to the extent to which the decisions th...

Lord Grayling | 579 c93 (Link to this contribution)

We have had long discussions across Government about how best to shape the right package for the ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 579 c93 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Lord Chancellor for giving way once again; he is being enormously generous. ...

Lord Grayling | 579 c93 (Link to this contribution)

Madam Deputy Speaker might deem me to be out of order if I followed too far down that route tonig...

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