Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill. Lords committee stage. Clauses 1 to 19, 24 to 28, 38 to 52, 90, 92 to 95 agreed to, with clauses 3, 59, 60, 86, 95 agreed to as amended. Clauses 20 to 23, 29 to 37, 53 to 85, 88, 89, 91 disagreed. Schedules 1, 2, 4 agreed to. Schedules 6, 7, 15 agreed to as amended. Schedules 3, 8 to 14 disagreed. Bill reported with amendments. Report and third reading agreed without debate. Bill passed and returned to the Commons with amendments.
Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 7 April 2010,
in the House of Lords,
led by Lord Bach.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
718 c1609-50Session
2009-10Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 40-EN also published.
Wednesday, 3 March 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 3 March 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1617 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very grateful for the Minister’s response to the amendments, particularly for his res...
Lord Tyler | 718 c1614-5 (Link to this contribution)
As one who served with the noble Lords, Lord Armstrong and Lord Norton, on the Joint Committee on th...
Show all contributions (97)
Earl of Onslow | 718 c1613-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall be extremely brief, since we are debating 163 amendments at half past twelve in th...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 718 c1614 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps it would be convenient if I also spoke to the five amendments. I do not want to co...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1610-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 in my name. I shall try to speak briefly to...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1617 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, before my noble friend withdraws his amendment—
Baroness Hayman | 718 c1618 (Link to this contribution)
If the noble Earl will forgive me, it may assist the Committee if I say that the noble Lord, Lord No...
Lord Bach | 718 c1609 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with the leave of the Committee, perhaps I may say a few words on the position in which we...
Lord McNally | 718 c1609-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his courtesy in clarifying the situation. For the benefit of the ...
Lord Strathclyde | 718 c1610 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister and the Lord Chancellor for the constructive way in which they ...
Lord Trefgarne | 718 c1610 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as one of those who was involved in the discussions on this matter, I express my appreciat...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1610 (Link to this contribution)
1: Clause 3, page 3, line 26, at end insert—
"( ) In exercising his power to manage the civil servic...
Lord Tyler | 718 c1623-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not intend to move Amendments 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19 and 20, but I and my noble frien...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1623 (Link to this contribution)
10: After Clause 27, insert the following new Clause—
"Explanatory memoranda
In laying a treaty befo...
Lord Geddes | 718 c1623 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am advised by the government Front Bench that its intention is to oppose the Question th...
Lord Tyler | 718 c1623 (Link to this contribution)
12: Clause 29, page 15, line 40, leave out "31 October" and insert "30 May"
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1619-20 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 9 and 10, also in my name, relating to the parts of the B...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1622-3 (Link to this contribution)
We worked up to the good news. Perhaps I may run through the three amendments. Amendment 8 was desig...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1620-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak also to Amendments 9 and 10. We have listened to the persuasive arguments of ...
Lord Bach | 718 c1618-9 (Link to this contribution)
I argue that Clauses 20, 21, 22 and 23 should not stand part of the Bill. We think that for appropri...
Lord Lucas | 718 c1625 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, is that like the last commitment that we had to a referendum from the Government, or it is...
Lord Bach | 718 c1625 (Link to this contribution)
22: Schedule 5, page 79, line 19, leave out "each House of Parliament" and insert "the House of Comm...
Lord Bach | 718 c1625 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps I may say how thrilled I am that I have thrilled the noble Earl. I have to agree w...
Lord Elton | 718 c1625 (Link to this contribution)
On a procedural matter, one cannot speak in this House unless one speaks to a Motion. The Motion is ...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1624 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has said that this will be removed from the Bill. I congratulate him on doing that. A...
Lord Bach | 718 c1624 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know the answer to that, but I think that there was every possibility that the party opposi...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 718 c1624 (Link to this contribution)
Did the Lord Chancellor ever seriously believe that this would end up other than being knocked out i...
Lord Bach | 718 c1624 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I hear clearly what the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, says. We understand and share his disappoi...
Lord Elton | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
I unreservedly withdraw that comment.
Amendments 168 and 169
Moved by
Lord Bach | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
168: Line 19, leave out from "administrations;" to first "to" in line 20
169: Line 20, leave out f...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1629-30 (Link to this contribution)
There you go. I cannot think why the Liberal Democrats cannot keep their mouths shut for half a minu...
Lord Bach | 718 c1625-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with the leave of the Committee, I shall speak also to Amendments 23 to 26. I can be very ...
Lord Bach | 718 c1626 (Link to this contribution)
23: Schedule 6, page 81, leave out paragraph (b)
24: Schedule 6, page 81, line 21, leave out from ...
Lord Tyler | 718 c1626-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Bach, generously said at the beginning of our proceedings on the B...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1629 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a particular pleasure to support the Government yet again, because they have been se...
Lord McNally | 718 c1630 (Link to this contribution)
I agree fully that the Minister is being realistic in the circumstances, but this House, including s...
Lord Bach | 718 c1630 (Link to this contribution)
Moving on to the other elements in Part 5, which are all a bit different from the one I have just ta...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 718 c1630 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, what conceivable opposition could there be to giving Peers rights of resignation and discl...
Lord Bach | 718 c1630 (Link to this contribution)
Let me be brief in my response. On Clause 53 and the appointment of hereditary Peers, I should make ...
Lord McNally | 718 c1630-1 (Link to this contribution)
I really do not want the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, who clearly has not read the Conservative slogan ...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1630 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may help.
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1634 (Link to this contribution)
The caterwauling of the Liberal alley cats has caused me a little bit of concern, and I should like ...
Viscount Waverley | 718 c1632 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I believe that the majority of hereditary Peers know exactly what our contribution is to P...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1634 (Link to this contribution)
32: Clause 54, page 31, line 3, leave out from "excepted" to end and insert "elected hereditary peer...
Lord Strathclyde | 718 c1632 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I take this opportunity to set the record straight. Clauses 54 and 55 are important clause...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 718 c1631 (Link to this contribution)
I had not intended to speak in this debate, but I really must congratulate the Government on their w...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 718 c1632 (Link to this contribution)
More than that, my Lords, it is not fair to suggest that we are pushing this through in the wash-up....
Lord McNally | 718 c1631 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, last year we had to dig back for a 300 year-old precedent to try to deal with four Members...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1637 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am assured that this is a consequential and technical amendment. I beg to move.
Amendme...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1637 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if everyone is happy with that very clear definition, I would advise your Lordships that i...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1637 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall not be the first person in this House to disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, ...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1636 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this is a probing amendment asking once more for a definition. I am getting extremely conc...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1636 (Link to this contribution)
105: Clause 59, page 33, line 37, leave out "and domiciled"
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1634 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am most grateful for that. Having made the point, unless anyone wishes to add anything, ...
Lord Bach | 718 c1634 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I feel that the Committee is waiting for me to answer the noble Lord’s question. To be tru...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1637-8 (Link to this contribution)
121: Clause 60, page 35, line 10, at end insert—
"(4A) But section 3(1)(b) of the 1999 Act does not ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1638 (Link to this contribution)
123: Clause 60, page 35, line 14 , at end insert—
"(5A) But subsection (5)(b) does not apply before ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1638 (Link to this contribution)
126: Clause 60, page 35, line 21, leave out from "peerage" to "subsection" in line 22 and insert "is...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1638-9 (Link to this contribution)
130: After Clause 60, insert the following new Clause—
"Tax status and citizenship of members of the...
Lord Selsdon | 718 c1639 (Link to this contribution)
I shall take only 30 seconds. The amendment concerns 30 territories around the world to which Britis...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 718 c1639-40 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said some considerable time ago when the debate started that it...
Lord Bach | 718 c1640-1 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, I am content that the Scottish legislation will be effective. This has been looked into.
Claus...
Lord Bach | 718 c1641 (Link to this contribution)
148: Clause 86, page 50, line 13, at end insert—
"(2) The Secretary of State may by order make trans...
Lord Ramsbotham | 718 c1642-5 (Link to this contribution)
I fully accept that the Bill that we are now discussing is but a shadow of the one that came before ...
Lord Bach | 718 c1641-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we move to Part 12 of the Bill and the Dacre report. In moving from a 30-year to a 20-year...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1645-6 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with both the noble Lords who have just spoken that it is a terrible thing that all these im...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 718 c1646 (Link to this contribution)
Returning to the issue of the votes of prisoners, I hope that whichever party comes into power after...
Lord Grenfell | 718 c1645 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support what the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has just said. The fact that he felt it nec...
Lord Elton | 718 c1646 (Link to this contribution)
The reputation of the wash-up process is now in shreds and it is not necessary to go on about it. Th...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1646 (Link to this contribution)
I will briefly piggyback on the amendment in the light of what the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, and my...
Lord Tyler | 718 c1646 (Link to this contribution)
I record on behalf of my noble friends that we, too, support the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, as we ...
Lord Bach | 718 c1647-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, which has been about two things: the a...
Lord Ramsbotham | 718 c1648-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I have to admit that the wording of this amendment wa...
Lord Lucas | 718 c1646 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I totally support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. I merely n...
Lord Bach | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
159A: Page 54, line 12, leave out from "60" to the end
159B: Page 54, line 13, leave out "other th...
Lord Bach | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
158A: Clause 95, page 53, line 41, leave out subsection (1)
158B: Page 54, line 1, leave out "any ...
Lord Geddes | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
I must advise the Committee of two misprints at this point in the Marshalled List. I am sure that ev...
Lord Bach | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
159: Clause 95, page 54, line 10, leave out paragraph (a)
Amendment 159 agreed.
Amendments 159A an...
Lord Bach | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
162A: Line 2, leave out from "Settlement" to first "to" in line 4
162B: Line 5, leave out from "tr...
Lord Bach | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
163A: Line 7, leave out from "elections;" to second "to" in line 8
163B: Line 11, leave out from "...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
I am assured by officials that all the manuscript amendments are purely consequential.
Lord Geddes | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
Would it assist the Committee if I read out the amendments? However, I do not think they would enlig...
Lord Elton | 718 c1649 (Link to this contribution)
Could we possibly have an indication of what the amendments are about?
Lord Geddes | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord will find that the amendments were available in the Printed Paper Office.
Lord Bach | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
166: Line 16, leave out from "purposes;" to first "to" in line 18
167: Line 18, leave out from "19...
Lord Norton of Louth | 718 c1619 (Link to this contribution)
8: Clause 25, page 14, line 24, at end insert—
"( ) The Minister shall normally exercise the power u...
Lord Ramsbotham | 718 c1642 (Link to this contribution)
155: After Clause 91, insert the following new Clause—
"Prisoner voting rights
Section 3 of the Repr...
Lord Bach | 718 c1615-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, for moving the amendment. I also thank him f...
Lord Bach | 718 c1626 (Link to this contribution)
25: Schedule 7, page 91, line 37, leave out "the House of Commons" and insert "each House of Parliam...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 718 c1628-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is deeply regrettable that the opportunity has not been taken to pursue these modest me...
Earl Ferrers | 718 c1631 (Link to this contribution)
I was only going to try to help my noble friend Lord Strathclyde because I thought that he and the n...
Lord Bach | 718 c1642 (Link to this contribution)
151: Schedule 15, page 132, line 15, leave out "In section 62(1)" and insert—
"(1) Section 62 (inter...
Lord Elton | 718 c1650 (Link to this contribution)
May I make the point that it would be quite easy to have these photocopied and circulated, as manusc...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 718 c1627-8 (Link to this contribution)
Before we do that, I register again my acute disappointment that, after three years of debate on wha...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 718 c1637 (Link to this contribution)
114A: Clause 59, page 34, line 36, leave out paragraph (c)
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