Pensions Bill. Lords Report stage second day. Part 1 of 2 records.
Pensions Bill
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
704 c1357-422Session
2007-08Legislative stage
Report stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Proceeding contributions
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1363, (corrigendum) 1682 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we do not see that as necessary. I have tried to give a firm commitment on the record. If ...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1411-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 77:
77: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Amendment of rul...
Show all contributions (88)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1409-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for moving the amendment; it gives us a chance to discuss an import...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1406-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 76:
76: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Annuities: form ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I for one find this a curious amendment, as the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, knows because ...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 704 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment, and do so as a former chairman of the Parliamentary Contributory ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 704 c1399-400 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am also grateful for that, although the Minister refers me back to a document that I hav...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 704 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but it just will not do. I set myself a litt...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks about my eloquence last year. I hope he will be ra...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have debated this topic before, as the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, and others have ackno...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1394-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we wholeheartedly support the principle behind the amendment just moved by the noble Lord,...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1416-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that response was disappointing and I am bound to say that I did not see the significance ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1422 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I admit that I was speaking even faster than I usually do, so perhaps the Minister did not...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1418 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 77A:
77A: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Amendment of p...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 704 c1413-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market, has just made a powerful speech adding to...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 704 c1413 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I very much regret that I was not able to be present for the earlier debate, owing to a lo...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1414 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, following on from that point, surely the same happens at whatever age you decide to annuit...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I understood that point, but if there is no requirement to crystallise some form of income...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1414 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord has misunderstood that part of the argument. No one is suggesting that annu...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1415 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would love to. Both last year and this year, the amendments in question have taken it on...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 704 c1390-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 74:
74: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Independent Publ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 704 c1394 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will not be surprised to learn that I oppose the amendment. ...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1412 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my Amendment No. 77A is grouped with Amendment No. 77. I shall not add much to what I have...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 704 c1408-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have a lot of sympathy with the objectives of the amendment. In a sense, it is almost a ...
Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve | 704 c1409 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the amendment has a serious consumer-protection objective, but I doubt whether it can achi...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1410-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been a useful and thoughtful debate. However, I was rather confused by the contri...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1404-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, for the chance to update the House on the Government’...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1405-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister can say that again. He said ““not as robust and fast””, but this is snail-lik...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1404 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I speak with some trepidation as the only non-member of the parliamentary pension scheme t...
Lord Crickhowell | 704 c1403 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps I may be even briefer than the noble Lord. At an earlier stage, I strongly support...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1401-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 75:
75: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Parliamentary pe...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1399 (Link to this contribution)
My apologies, my Lords; I did not address those specific questions. With regard to the unfunded publ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is interesting if that is implicit, or perhaps now explicit, in the Opposition’s propos...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1421-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am not sure that I have a complete answer to the noble Lord’s amendment, but I will have...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1420 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 77B:
77B: Before Clause 123, insert the following new Clause—
““Disclosure in ...
Baroness Thornton | 704 c1422 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned. In moving the Motion,...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1422 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this information did not come from the regulator or from anyone connected with the regulat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1422 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord will permit me to reiterate what I said. Under Section 82, it is an...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1412 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the noble Lord will allow me, what is his basis for saying that he thinks the Governmen...
Baroness Greengross | 704 c1413 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment. I hope that the Government and the Minister will agree to reconsi...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1414 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been a shorter debate, and I seek not to reiterate all the points that I made whe...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1379-80 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it seems to be the fashion in this debate for most, if not all noble Lords, to declare the...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 704 c1375-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall not vote on this amendment if the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, proposes to put it to a...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 704 c1374-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am nowhere near 75 so I do not need to declare an interest, but I am extremely concerned...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 704 c1378-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, hope that my noble friend the Minister and the Government will find themselves abl...
Lord Crickhowell | 704 c1377-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I agree with every word that the noble Baroness has just said. I declare a rather unpleasa...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1370-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 69A:
69A: After Clause 98, insert the following new Clause—
““Suspension of an...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1370 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, and the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, for their con...
Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 704 c1374 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Fowler has tabled an amendment at a critical moment, particularly for...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1372-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Fowler is quite right to remind us that in last year's Pensions Bill ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1367-70 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for tabling this amendment because it gives me a chance to upda...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 704 c1366-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have had some doubts about the conditional indexation model in relation to final salary ...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1367 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, is probably living in a bit of a dream world if she belie...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1364 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister continues to disappoint me. The issue is very clear. We have considerable con...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1364 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is self-evident. It was in part to deal with the point made by the noble Baroness; that...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1364 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, what did the Minister mean when he talked about giving further reports or information in a...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1364 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, PADA’s annual report and accounts were filed late last week. I accept that it is only a sh...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am disappointed with the Minister’s overall stance. While seeming to open up to more tra...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thought we were discussing the practical circumstances that people face and what current...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1384-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, frankly, that was a deeply disappointing reply from the Government. The Minister talked ab...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1388-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 71:
71: Clause 100, page 53, leave out lines 7 to 15 and insert—
““(5) The Sec...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1389-90 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for tabling this amendment. I was much encouraged in Committee when h...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1390 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 72:
72: Clause 100, page 53, line 17, at end insert—
““( ) In section 185(2) (...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 704 c1390 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 73:
73: Clause 112, page 58, line 28, leave out ““or decree”” and insert ““, d...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am perfectly happy to offer my noble friend the Government’s view on those amendments wh...
Lord Skelmersdale | 704 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, at the end of the noble Lord’s remarks, which, like some of my noble friends, I found almo...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 704 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am sorry to keep intervening, but is my noble friend arguing against the amendment on th...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 704 c1380-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was quite amazed by the various contributions to the debate and became more convinced as...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1381 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been an interesting debate. I will start by comforting noble Lords with the fact ...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1380 (Link to this contribution)
No, my Lords. I have probably rather more experience advising Governments either than the noble Lord...
Baroness Greengross | 704 c1380 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. The amendment is a modest but effective way of deal...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 704 c1382 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, will my noble friend clarify to the House what happens to the residual money in the pot of...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1382-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it depends upon the precise arrangements. In some instances it goes to charity but, if it ...
Lord Crickhowell | 704 c1382 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, is it not remarkable that, having tried desperately to minimise the number of people who t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1382 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is not. I was stating a matter of fact and the law. There were changes in 2006 to the a...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 704 c1380 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I appreciate that there is in history perhaps less experience of government on the noble L...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1358 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing the amendment and for responding constructiv...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1358 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we, too, support the amendment and think it a very satisfactory outcome to our discussions...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1357 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report.
Moved accordingly, and, ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1357 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 65:
65: After Clause 87, insert the following new Clause—
““Directors
(1) A pe...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1361-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we return to the financial operation of PADA and the trustee corporation. As the noble Bar...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 704 c1358 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 67:
67: Clause 96, page 50, line 51, at end insert—
““““tax year”” means the 1...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1358-61 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 68:
68: After Clause 96, insert the following new Clause—
““Report to Parliame...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1363 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am intrigued by what the noble Lord said about the possible inclusion of additional mate...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 704 c1361 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we on these Benches certainly have some sympathy with this amendment. The noble Baroness i...
Baroness Noakes | 704 c1364-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 69:
69: After Clause 98, insert the following new Clause—
““Conditional indexe...
Lord Fowler | 704 c1412 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am not saying that. The Government will not accept either. I hate to teach the noble Lor...
Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde | 704 c1379 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. A number of us in this House...
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