Pensions Bill

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, is probably living in a bit of a dream world if she believes that there are now many private sector schemes which are not under pressure, particularly given what has been happening to stock markets in recent weeks. Hundreds of billions of pounds have been wiped off the assets of pension funds in general, and even some of the strongest and best funded private sector pension schemes are clearly now in a much more difficult position. I pay tribute to the work of the Association of Consulting Actuaries, which has had meetings with us and other noble Lords, and has done a great deal of work on these amendments. I think it is right to raise this issue and the fact that we need a middle way between conventional DB schemes, which are now under so much pressure, and defined contribution schemes. However, I am not sure that I agree with the noble Baroness’s argument that, even if we are not certain that this is the right approach, we should table some amendments now and the Government can come back on them later. It seems to me that it is probably a little soon to set these out, and other serious organisations with a great deal of experience in pensions—I think particularly of the EEF—are sceptical about this way of doing things. I shall listen with great interest to what the Minister says but it is important that this matter is not kicked into the long grass. It is important that we explore the issue seriously and that the Government bring forward their proposals on conditional indexation soon. If the amendment is not accepted—and I believe that the Government do not want to accept it—I want to know what are they going to do and when.