Pensions Bill

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, for the chance to update the House on the Government’s position. I fear that I may disappoint him for the second time today on the substance of his case, but I am happy to update him on the process and the way forward. I say to the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, who made reference to the parliamentary pension scheme, that the Senior Salaries Review Body is undertaking a major review of the arrangements, although it is not expected to report until later in 2009. As the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, indicated, I have previously committed to facilitate engagement with ministerial colleagues so that the issues raised by him could be considered further. I am pleased to say that this consideration has taken place, and I understand that the noble Lord met the former Deputy Leader of the other place on 1 October to discuss his proposals. I understand, as the noble Lord suggested, that the meeting was helpful to both sides, and although a new Deputy Leader, my honourable friend Chris Bryant MP, was appointed in the recent reshuffle, I can assure the House that he is already engaged on this matter and is very happy to continue the dialogue with the noble Lord and others with an interest. Indeed, I am aware that a number of representations from other parties have been made since the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, tabled his amendments in Committee. The noble Lord has raised a number of concerns. He has, however, acknowledged that the position relating to the ability to draw on professional pensions expertise in the running of the parliamentary scheme has changed in recent years. This is an important point that is worth reiterating, as there has been considerable work undertaken. I have been given assurances that the secretariat to the trustees is now staffed by suitably qualified pensions experts, and that the day-to-day administration has been outsourced to a reputable third party. I understand that the current trustees have the broad range of skills and experience that a body of this type looks for, and that they have either sat the relevant examinations of the Pensions Management Institute or are undergoing a course of study. Member involvement is the other issue which the Deputy Leader is looking at. As the noble Lord knows, there is already involvement in the running of the parliamentary pension scheme by members of the scheme. The scheme regulations require all the trustees to be either Members of the other place or former Members who are entitled to a pension from the scheme. However, it is essential that noble Lords have confidence in the running of the scheme and it is clear that changes might be necessary to the appointment process to instil a sense of ownership. The Deputy Leader will continue to explore ways of doing this with the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and other stakeholders. I must admit that we do not believe that the major changes that the noble Lord proposes are appropriate at this stage, particularly in advance of the major review of the parliamentary pension arrangements announced by the Leader of the other place in a Written Ministerial Statement on 17 June. The interaction between the various pieces of legislation is complex and we do not yet have a consensus on exactly what should be done. As such it is right that we continue to look at and talk about this issue. I assure the noble Lord, however, that, as the former Deputy Leader of the other place made clear in her meeting with him, any changes to the selection process and, if it is felt appropriate, the removal of the Pensions Act exemption could be achieved without the need for primary legislation, which is one of the points on which the noble Lord pressed me particularly. The noble Lord also asked whether electoral college arrangements would be possible. I understand that that would be a possible option and we are continuing dialogue to get started on subject and other options. I hope that I can indicate to the noble Lord a degree of process, although the key point is that dialogue should continue. Certainly, my honourable friend in the other place is keen for that to happen. Any changes that might need to flow from that dialogue do not need primary legislation and do not need to be dealt with in this Bill. I hope that that will satisfy the noble Lord that there is some movement on this although I suspect that it is not as robust and fast as he would like.