UK Parliament / Open data

Judicial Review and Courts Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 24 February 2022, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 3 to 49 agreed to, with clause 48 agreed to as amended. Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to. Government new clauses agreed to. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 120).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

819 cc365-435 

Session

2021-22

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Legislative scrutiny: Judicial Review and Courts Bill. Joint Committee on Human Rights tenth report.
Wednesday, 1 December 2021
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Judicial Review and Courts Bill 2021-22. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 26 January 2022
Bills
House of Lords
Judicial Review and Courts Bill. Constitution Committee (HL) twelfth report
Monday, 21 February 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Judicial Review and Courts Bill 2021-22. As amended in Committee.
Thursday, 24 February 2022
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 c365 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

24: Clause 3, page 4, line 28, at end insert—...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 cc365-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 3 of the Bill sets out a new code, which is to become new Sections 16G to 16M of...


Show all contributions (99)
Lord Pannick | 819 cc368-9 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I might raise a point with the Minister. As I understand the scheme of Clause 3, this aut...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 819 c369 (Link to this contribution)

I am struggling to remember as far back as Second Reading of this Bill, but I did say at the time...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 cc369-371 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with the final sentence of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones. We all want to see t...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc370-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will first deal with the general argument for Clause 3, not least because the noble B...

Lord Pannick | 819 c373 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. That was the point that I was seeking to make. The last time the o...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c373 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for that further explanation of the point and will happily reflect on it....

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 c373 (Link to this contribution)

Just on that—and by the way, I did not speak earlier because the case was made so well by the nob...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc373-5 (Link to this contribution)

I should say, first, that when I mentioned the noble Baroness in my speech, I was not making the ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 c375 (Link to this contribution)

Before I consider our position, can I just ask when the cooling-off period is likely to kick in. ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c375 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will give an answer, but I will check it and if I get it wrong I will write to the no...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 cc375-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that clarification; I will consider it.

I will of cours...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 c376 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

30: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clau...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 cc376-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in introducing this group, I thought I would tell the Committee about my experience of ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 cc377-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I speak to Amendment 37, I should like to congratulate my noble friend Lord Pons...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 cc378-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will make two separate points. First, Amendment 54, tabled by my noble friend Lord Po...

Baroness Whitaker | 819 c379 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a former magistrate, I warmly support the first point made by my noble and learned f...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 cc379-380 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group seek reviews or consultations in three quite disparate are...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 819 cc380-1 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree that the magistracy is essentially a local service built up by knowledge of the ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc381-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group, Amendments 30, 37 and 54, all deal with reviews of the cr...

Lord Beith | 819 c383 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. Does he think that he ought to consider the impact that would flow...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c383 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I accept that point as a matter of principle. That is why consultation is really at the...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 cc383-4 (Link to this contribution)

The legislative form that this is taking, in Clause 43(1), is:

“Local justice areas are abo...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc384-5 (Link to this contribution)

First, the legislative architecture, so to speak, is not just Clause 43: I have already mentioned...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 c385 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I have to admit that Amendment ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 c385 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

31: Clause 6, page 11, line 13, at end insert—

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 cc386-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this group of amendments we are dealing with offences triable either way and determi...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 cc387-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 36 in my name. I also support Amendment 36A in the name of m...

Lord Pannick | 819 c388 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I express my support for Amendment 36A. When I was a member of your Lordships’ Constitu...

Baroness Whitaker | 819 c388 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group. My support comes from my experience as a ma...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c388 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have very considerable concerns, which have also been expressed by the Delegated Powe...

Lord Deben | 819 cc388-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a non-lawyer, I have listened to much of this debate before and today and I think th...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 cc389-390 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the first two amendments in this group, Amendments 31 and 32 from the noble Lord, Lord ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc390-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. It covers a number...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 819 c392 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I find myself in a somewhat invidious situation regarding Amendment 36. I thank the Min...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c396 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

38: After Clause 23, insert the following new Claus...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c397 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am conscious that there is another amendment in this group, Amendment 39, in the name...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c398 (Link to this contribution)

I shall quickly speak to Amendment 39, in the name of my noble friend Lord Ponsonby, which seeks ...

Lord Pannick | 819 cc398-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister rightly said that his Amendment 38 is a modest one, but this group of amen...

Lord Pannick | 819 c399 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister draws my attention to subsection (6), which allows a person to choose to do so by no...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c399 (Link to this contribution)

In relation to that point, it is absolutely plain that the wording of Section 19 applies to any s...

Lord Pannick | 819 c400 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sorry to rise again, but I want to respond to what the Minister was indicating to ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 cc400-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak first to government Amendment 38, which makes provision for pre-action dis...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc401-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will first say a word about the amendment which I have put before the Committee. Dispute resolu...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 c402 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the noble and learned Lord and am grateful for him giving way. May I draw...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c402 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is absolutely right, but I was seeking to make the point more broadly. I will come...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 819 c403 (Link to this contribution)

May I assist the Minister with an illustration? Four weeks ago, a close relative was owed a signi...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc403-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention. Absolutely, this is about enabling people t...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c404 (Link to this contribution)

I am increasingly bewildered by these answers. I have obviously misunderstood this clause, but it...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc404-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point I was going to come to. Here we are dealing with the rules set out by the Onlin...

Lord Pannick | 819 cc405-6 (Link to this contribution)

My concern is not about online hearings, because they do take place and may be convenient in some...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc406-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord. He is absolutely right about the three/three appointments, but I...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c407 (Link to this contribution)

The relative of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, is the proof that we all want. We are al...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c407 (Link to this contribution)

Let me deal with that last point. Amendment 38 is not about approving the persons but approving t...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c408 (Link to this contribution)

What is envisaged in Amendment 38 is that, if it is Falconer Services or Wolfson Services, somebo...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c408 (Link to this contribution)

That is not what Amendment 38 is aimed at. It is not about accrediting mediation services. It is ...

Lord Pannick | 819 cc408-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord. He correctly points out that there are occasions where ther...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c409 (Link to this contribution)

With respect, of course I understand the point the noble Lord has made, and I will write to try t...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 cc409-410 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

40: Clause 38, page 53, line 12, at end insert—

“...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 cc410-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am conscious that the Committee is valiant and well into the third hour of today’s proceedings;...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 819 cc412-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the office of the coroner has evolved over 1,000 years since William the Conqueror intr...

Lord Beith | 819 cc414-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with many of the points my noble friend has made. He made a particularly forcef...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c415 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Beith, but I understand that he does not contest any o...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 cc415-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I commend my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti for tabling these amendments so quickly; I a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c417 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group relate to coroners’ inquests, and include government and n...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 c417 (Link to this contribution)

Subject to the views of the Committee, that sounds eminently sensible. In case it is necessary, p...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c418 (Link to this contribution)

I was not seeking to take any procedural point. Rather than take time this afternoon, because we ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c418 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, I know that we are pushed for time and there are important matters that we want to ge...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc418-9 (Link to this contribution)

It certainly is. I had prepared to respond to the amendments and am happy to do so if the Committ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 819 c419 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has said we want coroners’ inquests to remain inquisitorial. In practice, they are a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c419 (Link to this contribution)

I can accept two points there. I can accept that I and the Government will reconsider it. We cert...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c419 (Link to this contribution)

We are getting to the heart of it, in a sense, because the Government contend that these processe...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c419 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I understand that point, in the sense that I too have read the material of people who h...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 819 c420 (Link to this contribution)

Whether the process is inquisitorial or adversarial, surely you are entitled to basic fairness. T...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc420-1 (Link to this contribution)

The fundamental point is: who is the “you”? Who are the parties to an inquest? As I was saying ea...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c421 (Link to this contribution)

That is not the intention; it is that the hearing in its entirety should not be conducted by audi...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc421-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that clarification, but the same point would apply. If the only people who are ...

Lord Beith | 819 c423 (Link to this contribution)

It is not just human nature; it is the practical difficulty of registering deaths and making appo...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc423-4 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that, certainly from my postbag. I should say that coroners work extremely hard, but...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 819 cc424-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to every Member of the Committee who participated, in particular to the n...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc425-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

46: After Clause 42, insert the following new Claus...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c426 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chapman of Darlington

47: After Clause 42, insert the following new...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 cc426-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with the permission of the Committee, my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti and I have had a...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 819 cc427-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in the mists of time I was articled to Maurice Evans, who was the coroner on the inques...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 819 cc429-430 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to repeat anything that the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, said in her moving co...

Lord Hacking | 819 c430 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if noble Lords will permit me, I would like to make a short intervention. I have not ta...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc430-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group, Amendments 47, 48 and 49, would introduce three new claus...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c432 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has not read it yet, but I will take the bravos in advance in case I get brickbats...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c432 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, we will not push the amendments to a vote today. It is pleasing to hear the Minister rec...

Lord Etherton | 819 cc432-3 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Etherton

51: After Clause 45, insert the following new Clause—

“P...

Lord Etherton | 819 cc433-4 (Link to this contribution)

As I foreshadowed at Second Reading, I have tabled this amendment to enable tribunals to make pro...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 819 c434 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we fully support the amendment moved by the noble and learned Lord. There is nothing th...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 819 c434 (Link to this contribution)

Similarly, I indicate our hope that the Government will bring something forward. Should that not ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 cc434-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as this is the last group in Committee, it is nice to end on a point of general agreeme...

Lord Etherton | 819 c435 (Link to this contribution)

I think there is nothing more to say. I am very grateful to the Minister for those indications, a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 819 c435 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

52: Clause 48, page 58, line 15, at end insert “, e...

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