UK Parliament / Open data

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 8 November 2021, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage sixth day. Clauses 63 to 76 agreed to. Schedules 8 and 9 agreed to. (Part 1 of 2).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

815 cc1448-1510 

Session

2021-22

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

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Proceeding contributions

Lord Garnier | 815 c1448 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Garnier

150: Clause 63, page 62, line 22, at end insert—

“(11A) A...

Lord Garnier | 815 cc1448-1451 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury and to the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewe...


Show all contributions (87)
Viscount Hailsham | 815 c1449 (Link to this contribution)

Can my noble and learned friend clarify the standard of proof? I assume that it is the civil stan...

Lord Garnier | 815 c1452 (Link to this contribution)

Many things could be added to the Bill and many could be taken away but the general thrust of the...

Baroness Brinton | 815 cc1452-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, for explaining his amendment...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 815 cc1453-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is so much to get through. First, I disagree with the noble and learned Lord, Lor...

Viscount Hailsham | 815 c1454 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, may I just intervene very briefly? I agree with the noble Baroness when she says that, ...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 815 cc1454-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the Minister that I had to leave before the end of the debate on Wednesd...

Baroness Whitaker | 815 c1457 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wonder whether the interesting amendment from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnie...

Lord Paddick | 815 cc1457-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 63 amends Section 61 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Section ...

Lord Rosser | 815 c1459 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be relatively brief. We had a lengthy debate on the previous day in Committee ab...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 815 cc1459-1461 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I particularly thank

Lord Paddick | 815 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. With regard to the other examples that she ha...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 815 c1462 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have said all along, and the proponents of the amendments that we have discussed have...

Lord Garnier | 815 c1462 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have spoken in this debate. I am particularly grateful t...

Lord Berkeley | 815 c1463 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

152: Clause 65, leave out Clause 65 and insert the following n...

Lord Berkeley | 815 cc1463-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we come to Part 5. I shall also speak to Amendments 167, 168 and 169. I am grateful to ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 815 cc1466-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to speak to Amendment 152, to which I have added my name. I welcome Clause 65, b...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 815 cc1468-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as the president of the Road Danger Reduction Forum. I point out ...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 815 cc1469-1470 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was very happy to put my name to all these amendments. As you will be aware, the Cros...

Earl Attlee | 815 cc1470-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for his introduction to this group, and...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 815 cc1471-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to provide my support for a remark made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, in the...

Lord Judge | 815 cc1473-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly. The Road Traffic Act and all its many successors have left us wit...

Baroness Randerson | 815 cc1474-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I echo the sentiments of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, in thanking the coalition of or...

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood | 815 cc1475-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had proposed to speak specifically to my noble and learned friend Lord Hope’s amendme...

Lord Rosser | 815 c1476 (Link to this contribution)

I will, once again, I hope, be relatively brief. We welcome Clause 65 and the Government’s action...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 cc1477-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and others for speaking to these amendm...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 815 c1479 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister saying that if we drafted this slightly better, with “dangerous driving” included...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 cc1479-1482 (Link to this contribution)

I will be very careful here because the law in this area is really complex. I was going to say th...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 815 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, I point out that he is arguing for the status quo when we have a...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that, with respect, the noble Baroness is wrong on both points. There are provisions ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 815 c1482 (Link to this contribution)

I also point out that when the Minister demonstrated the Dutch reach, he did so from the point of...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness and I are sitting on opposite sides of the House. If I was driving, I would no...

Earl Attlee | 815 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend has been very helpful, but I am slightly worried that he does not fully...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1483 (Link to this contribution)

I am certainly aware of the differences between dangerous driving and careless driving. Dangerous...

Lord Berkeley | 815 cc1483-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had a fascinating debate on these amendments and I have no regrets about tablin...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 815 c1484 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Stowell of Beeston

153: Clause 66, page 63, line 21, after “vehicle...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 815 cc1484-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to this amendment and my other amendments in this group. First, though, I ...

Lord Pannick | 815 c1486 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness has made a powerful speech, which I find entirely compelling. My onl...

Lord Berkeley | 815 cc1486-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am probably alone on this one: some years ago I went away from my wedding service in ...

Earl Attlee | 815 c1487 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend. It is ludicrous that pedicabs are regulated ...

Baroness Randerson | 815 c1487 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness has made a very strong point about an issue which applies only in a ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 815 c1488 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too agree that the noble Baroness made a compelling speech, with which a lot of peopl...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 815 cc1488-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Stowell for comprehensively setting out the case ...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 815 cc1489-1490 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will certainly withdraw the amendment. I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister ...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 815 c1490 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hope of Craighead

155: Clause 66, page 63, line 28, at end insert—

<...
Lord Hope of Craighead | 815 cc1490-3 (Link to this contribution)

In moving this amendment, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, has put her name, I will s...

Baroness Randerson | 815 cc1494-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord explained very effectively, Clause 66 inserts a new Secti...

Lord Pannick | 815 c1495 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to the suggestion that this clause should not stand part of the Bi...

Earl Attlee | 815 c1495 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support everything that noble Lords have said so far. Unless the clause is significan...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 815 cc1495-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as this is about causing serious injury by careless or inconsiderate driving, the state...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 815 c1497 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has made a very interesting speech, but is it right that negligence and the harm t...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 815 c1497 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting point. Manslaughter can obviously be by negligence.

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 815 c1497 (Link to this contribution)

Gross negligence, yes—although it is interesting that the word “gross” is put before it. But thes...

Lord Beith | 815 c1497 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there have been some powerful contributions to this debate. I agree with the comments t...

Lord Berkeley | 815 c1497 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, can I just ask the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, why he thinks that an offence in the transp...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 815 c1498 (Link to this contribution)

Driving is an activity which is universal. Equally, the mistake—or negligence—is also universal, ...

Lord Marlesford | 815 c1498 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I very much agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and other noble Lords who...

Earl Attlee | 815 c1498 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is an obvious difference between an offence of careless driving and a health and ...

Lord Judge | 815 c1498 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wonder whether I should say that I am not going to make a second speech polishing up ...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 815 cc1498-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have to say that I find myself in the somewhat invidious situation of supporting the ...

Earl Attlee | 815 c1499 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the good thing is that the party opposite is being consistent, because it introduced th...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 cc1499-1501 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, objects to Clause 66 standing part of the Bill a...

Lord Pannick | 815 c1501 (Link to this contribution)

With his enormous experience of various areas of the law, can the Minister think of any example o...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1501 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether health and safety is not, in fact, an example. This is not my area of the law, a...

Lord Pannick | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the Minister’s argument. My question is whether there are any actual, practical exam...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, and I will write to the noble Lord with an answer. I just want to be clear what exam q...

Lord Pannick | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I am considering the proposed offence of carelessness. To be clear, my question is whether there ...

Lord Judge | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I would much rather the Minister answered that question.

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, is very kind. I was going to say that, because I am stand...

Baroness Randerson | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I simply wanted to add that, when the Minister writes to us, perhaps he could give due considerat...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to deal with that in the letter.

Earl Attlee | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on a couple of occasions, my noble friend the Minister has said that the only disposal ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 815 c1502 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that it may be a severe penalty. It depends who you are dealing with, and the circumstan...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 815 cc1502-3 (Link to this contribution)

I hope the Minister has sat down, because I thought it was time for me to wind up. I am very grat...

Lord Tope | 815 c1504 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Tope

156: Clause 68, page 65, line 9, at end insert—

“(c) a local...

Lord Tope | 815 cc1504-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 156, I will also speak to Amendment 163.

First, I must declar...

Lord Berkeley | 815 c1506 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have put my name to this amendment, because it is a really useful proposal from Londo...

Lord Sandhurst | 815 cc1506-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support these amendments. I do so as a resident and ratepayer of the London Borough o...

Lord St John of Bletso | 815 c1507 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am afraid that I take a converse view on this. London has a massive problem with incr...

Baroness Hamwee | 815 c1507 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not think that my noble friend is proposing to reduce the speed limit. It is about...

Baroness Randerson | 815 c1507 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a very ambitious amendment from my noble friend. It would involve significant c...

Lord Rosser | 815 cc1507-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, like the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I do not intend to stand here and announce our...

Lord Paddick | 815 c1508 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the Committee: I was not going to say anything, but I could not resist. There is c...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 815 cc1508-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for taking part in this short but very interesting debate. As the noble Lord,...

Lord Tope | 815 c1510 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister, particularly for revealing how close he came to a crimin...

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