UK Parliament / Open data

Trade Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 6 March 2019, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Bates and Baroness Fairhead. The answering member was Lord Stevenson of Balmacara.
Lords report stage first day. Report received. Government amendments 1 and 2 agreed. Other amendments debated and withdrawn. Government amendment 6 (new clause) agreed. New clauses debated and withdrawn. Amendment 12 agreed to on division (215 to 168). Amendment 13 agreed to on division (207 to 141). Other amendments discussed and withdrawn. Clause 5 under consideration.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

796 cc614-696 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Trade Bill 2017-19. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 18 July 2018
Bills
House of Lords
Processes for making free trade agreements after the United Kingdom has left the European Union
Thursday, 28 February 2019
Command papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0319
Monday, 11 March 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c615 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this House has debated many issues during the passage of the Trade Bill, none more impo...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c616 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for her efforts to meet the requirements of the Motion in t...


Show all contributions (154)
Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc616-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, we welcome the Minister’s comments from the Dispat...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 796 c617 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as one of those who supported the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, I thank ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c617 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with the indulgence of the House I should like to welcome the start of Report. A number...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 796 c617 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to ask one question of the Minister. I welcome the White Paper; it is full of commit...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord will be aware, the Government’s aim is to achieve a deal. As this House will al...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that that is the Government’s aim, but it is also the case that the Government have ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the noble Lord is making. As we have always said, we will seek to bal...

Lord Lansley | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend sits down, I draw the attention of the House to Amendment 10, in my name a...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for his clarification. That is indeed true but I think he will also accep...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 c618 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend will be aware that the Secretary of State for Agriculture promised, at the NFU Co...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc618-9 (Link to this contribution)

I hope I have addressed that. Should no deal appear to be what is happening, they will be publish...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c619 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Fairhead

1: Clause 1, page 2, line 13, after “direct” insert “princ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c619 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as this amendment touches on the GPA, I inform the House that the UK has formally recei...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 c619 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps there is a report from the Constitution Committee that would answer the questio...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c619 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the concept of retained direct principal EU legislation is that of EU legislation that ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c620 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Fairhead

2: Clause 2, page 2, line 41, after “direct” insert “princ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 796 c620 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb

3: Clause 2, page 2, line 47, at end insert—

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 796 cc620-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will also speak in support of Amendment 4, which I have put my name to.

I thank...

Baroness Henig | 796 cc622-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have put my name to Amendments 3 and 4 and speak in support of the noble Baroness, La...

Lord Lansley | 796 c623 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, surely the point is that the Bill relates only to agreements in place before exit day. ...

Baroness Henig | 796 c623 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is clearly prescient, because I am just about to cover the very point he raises. A...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 cc623-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, and thank her, the noble Baroness, Lady ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc625-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we now know for a fact that only a tiny fraction of those rolled-over trade agreements ...

Lord Lilley | 796 c627 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for pointing out the distinction between whether chlorine washing...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 c627 (Link to this contribution)

It is a shame that processes do not allow interventions on interventions. When have I said that t...

Lord Lilley | 796 c627 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise and withdraw in that case.

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc627-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that. The point I am making is that the EU, with full UK support, has had a con...

Lord Garnier | 796 c628 (Link to this contribution)

What else does the noble Lord have in mind in proposed new subsection (5B) when he uses the expre...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 c628 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord will know, we have engaged in a number of legislative standards across all the ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc628-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had a very good debate on an important and long-lasting topic which we need to ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc629-632 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate the attention that this House has paid to the vitally important issue of s...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 c632 (Link to this contribution)

I have been looking at the continuity agreement reached with the Faroe Islands. I understand that...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c632 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I tried to explain, the Motions laid by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, will be dealt w...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 c632 (Link to this contribution)

I may be able to help the noble Baroness. I am grateful for the response from the Government Whip...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 796 cc632-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response and her promise to bring this back at Third Readi...

Lord Judge | 796 c633 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

3A: Clause 2, page 2, line 47, at end insert—

“( ) Regulati...

Lord Judge | 796 cc633-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment has very little to do with trade as such, but it raises a constitutional...

Lord Garnier | 796 cc635-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, thought that his thinking was inadequate com...

Lord Pannick | 796 c636 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to this amendment because I share the concern expressed by the nob...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 796 cc636-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we should be very grateful to the Constitution Committee for drawing our attention to t...

Lord Beith | 796 c637 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not need to add to the masterful laying out of the reasons for the amendment by th...

Lord Wilson of Dinton | 796 c638 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I offer a footnote in support of noble and learned Lords and the points just made. It s...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 796 c638 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I suppose I ought to take some part in this discussion. I hope to do so briefly, becaus...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc638-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the noble Lords, Lord Pannick and L...

Lord Pannick | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness. Under the Pepper v Hart principle, what matters is not ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to confirm that that is the case.

Lord Garnier | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

Can I press my noble friend a little further? Why does she not simply arrange for Amendment 3A to...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a genuine difference of legal opinion here. My proposal is that we reflect on ...

Lord Cormack | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for interrupting at this stage, but is my noble friend prepared to say on the record ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

I am unable to make that commitment.

Lord Judge | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

May I respectfully ask what, in that case, would be the purpose of the meeting with the Minister ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that we have a clear legal position which is strongly believed, and the meeti...

Lord Judge | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

If we can reach a mutual agreement on it, it is at least possible that the Government may decide ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

There will be other opportunities; perhaps we could have a meeting before the second day on Repor...

Lord Judge | 796 c640 (Link to this contribution)

Provided it is understood that the resolution of this issue will abide or at least wait for a mee...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c641 (Link to this contribution)

I have heard a very well-argued case—the first time I have heard the impact of that case. I can c...

Lord Pannick | 796 c641 (Link to this contribution)

I suggest that this matter cannot be brought back on the second day, because this is an amendment...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c641 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are in a very similar situation to where we were in an earlier debate. Clearly there...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c641 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and I agree with that position.

Lord Judge | 796 c641 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson. I think that calling for a Division at...

Baroness Henig | 796 cc641-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Henig

5: Clause 3, page 3, line 43, at end insert—

“(5A) A Mi...

Baroness Henig | 796 cc642-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that my amendment will prove a little more straightforward than the one we have ...

Lord Davies of Stamford | 796 c643 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to my noble friend for giving way. I know that she is an expert in the subject...

Baroness Henig | 796 c643 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree. That is precisely my concern: that there is an effective scrutiny process in ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc643-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, for tabling Amendment 5. It gives the House an ...

Lord Berkeley | 796 c644 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister finishes, I do not think that she answered my noble friend’s question about c...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc644-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the engagement we have with civic society, businesses and trade unions will be critical...

Baroness Henig | 796 c645 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened carefully to what the Minister said. She talked about a “running commentary”, and...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c645 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Fairhead

6: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc645-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group includes Amendments 6 and 7. With the indulgence of the House, I shall speak...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 796 c646 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Neville-Rolfe

7: After Clause 5, leave out subsection (1)(b)

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 796 c646 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for a useful meeting, and for responding to my ame...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc646-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee there were a number of amendments, including one in my name, which sought ...

Lord Lansley | 796 c647 (Link to this contribution)

I declare an interest as the UK co-chair of the UK-Japan 21st Century Group. My understanding of ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc647-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is helpful. However, my question to the Government remains as to what the status of the Bill...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c648 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe for Amendment 7, which brings reporting on f...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 c648 (Link to this contribution)

From my experience of the Scottish Parliament, there is nothing to prevent any UK Government subm...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc648-9 (Link to this contribution)

That is a helpful interruption, but we would probably like to have a more formal process for hand...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 796 c649 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for her very helpful assurances and have pleasure in withdrawing my amend...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 c649 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

8: After Clause 5, insert the following new C...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 cc649-650 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I mentioned earlier, since Committee the Government have published the very helpful ...

Lord Bilimoria | 796 c650 (Link to this contribution)

I emphasise how important this issue is. From my experience, the UK has arguably the finest legal...

Lord Bates | 796 cc650-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh for presenting this amendment and for giving us t...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 796 cc651-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for such a comprehensive response. I am sure some...

Lord Lansley | 796 c652 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lansley

9: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

“Pref...

Lord Lansley | 796 cc652-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak to Amendment 9 in my name and that of the noble Lord, ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c653 (Link to this contribution)

I rise briefly to support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, which I have...

Lord Bates | 796 cc653-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Lansley and Lord Stevenson, for moving the amendment standing in th...

Lord Lansley | 796 cc655-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister and indeed to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for t...

Lord Lansley | 796 c656 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lansley

10: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

“The...

Lord Lansley | 796 cc656-9 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 10 stands in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson. In Committee, we did n...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c659 (Link to this contribution)

I have a private joke with the former Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, that ther...

Lord Bates | 796 cc659-660 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for moving the amendment. The noble Lord is right: my noble friend has ra...

Lord Lansley | 796 c660 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend, and to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara. This debate...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 796 c661 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lea of Crondall

11: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

Lord Lea of Crondall | 796 cc661-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, last summer the House supported a proposition along the lines of retaining our membersh...

Lord Monks | 796 c663 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the House has carried an amendment such as this before and has done so overwhelmingly. ...

Lord Bilimoria | 796 c663 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to follow what the noble Lord, Lord Monks, said, I was one of the noble Lords who led o...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c663 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, although the key point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Monks, that this might seem a l...

Lord Bates | 796 c664 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am conscious of the time, but I also want to ensure that noble Lords have an opportun...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 796 cc664-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. In fact, he did not answer all the questions on 4 ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc665-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

12: After Clause 5, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc666-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, after that brief pause for dramatic effect, we move on quickly. We have already begun t...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 796 cc667-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Purvis, and ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc668-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Hannay and Lord Stevenson, for working coll...

Viscount Hailsham | 796 cc669-670 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly simply to explain why I do not feel I can support the proposed new claus...

Lord Lansley | 796 c670 (Link to this contribution)

I thoroughly agree with my noble friend Lord Hailsham in his argument. I will add one thing. The ...

Lord Bilimoria | 796 cc670-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at the heart of this is Parliament taking control. What has been a problem for the past...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 796 c671 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my perspective is that of a former negotiator. I do not think that a serious parliament...

Lord Tugendhat | 796 c671 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will intervene very briefly. The proposers of this amendment put forward their argume...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc672-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Han...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 796 c673 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the Minister for that clarification. I think I heard her say that there wil...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c673 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the chosen words of the Government are “outline approach”. On the noble Lord’s point, t...

Lord Bilimoria | 796 c673 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said very clearly that the power of having Parliament behind the Gover...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc673-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to go into the world of semantics, but the preferred term is “outline app...

Lord Warner | 796 c674 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not accept that a Command Paper does not give the assurance to Parliament that ...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc674-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will come to that point later, which relates to the question that the noble Lord, Lor...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc676-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will keep the Minister in suspense about what I am going to do, but not for long. I am grateful...

Viscount Hailsham | 796 c677 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord then accept that it is necessary to have some provision to deal with the situ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c677 (Link to this contribution)

Yes—but I do not have it. I challenge the Minister: if she is asserting that we are as close as s...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 796 c677 (Link to this contribution)

While my noble friend is proposing to make a comment, it is highly important that the question of...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had very fruitful discussions and come quite a long way on this point. All I ca...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is certainly very brave to take on a former Lord Chancellor in his pomp. I agree wit...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

Inspiration is not my line but there is no doubt at all that it is for the House to decide. The m...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord. I am getting inspiration in the form of a book from ...

Lord Grantchester | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend could retable the amendment. He should, really.

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

In short, the advice is confused, but I am going to think about it.

The noble Lord, Lord Tu...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c678 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

13: After Clause 5, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc678-682 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the purpose of the amendment is to give the other place a chance to consider whether th...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 796 cc682-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is no doubt that we on these Benches support the free economic movement of goods ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 796 c683 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, for this House it is déjà vu all over again. We voted for a customs union in the withdr...

Lord Wigley | 796 c683 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall try to be as brief as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. I too tabled an amendment earl...

Viscount Trenchard | 796 c683 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I know I am in a small minority in your Lordships’ House on this one, but I would like ...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 796 c684 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to correct the noble Viscount. We have been a member of the customs union with the Eu...

Viscount Trenchard | 796 c684 (Link to this contribution)

I do not disagree with the noble Lord—but the point I was making is that in the period since 1998...

Baroness Altmann | 796 c684 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment. I hope we will send back a clear message to the other place th...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 796 cc684-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like clarification from those who tabled this amendment: they refer to “a” cust...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 796 c685 (Link to this contribution)

The situation the noble Baroness is describing will obtain if the Prime Minister’s deal goes thro...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 796 cc685-6 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has expressed sentiments that I have heard many times over the past three years fr...

Baroness Altmann | 796 c686 (Link to this contribution)

I think what the noble Baroness is doing for the House is eruditely explaining the trade-offs tha...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 796 cc686-7 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness has just told your Lordships that the House was trying to protect manufacturin...

Lord Bates | 796 cc687-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at this hour, and given the debate, there will probably not be many Members of your Lor...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c688 (Link to this contribution)

Follow that wonderful peroration! The Minister has been practising, I am sure. I congratulate him...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c688 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

15: After Clause 5, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 cc688-692 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 15 deals with whether future trade agreements should have a chapter or separa...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc692-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, for tabling this amendment. I will make some...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 796 c694 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for her full response. I look forward to reading it in Hansard...

Lord Tyler | 796 c694 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Tyler

18: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—

“Geogr...

Lord Tyler | 796 c694 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am a co-signatory to this amendment. I will be exceedingly brief because of the late ...

Lord Deben | 796 cc694-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to make a confession: when I was a Minister responsible for this area, I disobey...

Baroness Fairhead | 796 cc695-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, for tabling this amendment. I fear, however, that I...

Lord Tyler | 796 c696 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened with great interest to what the Minister has said. There is a simple tr...

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Trade Bill 2017-19
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