UK Parliament / Open data

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 17 - 40 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

787 cc690-725 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]. Constitution Committee (HL) eighth report.
Wednesday, 15 November 2017
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee seventh report.
Wednesday, 15 November 2017
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2018-0031
Thursday, 21 December 2017
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Lennie | 787 cc690-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lennie

52: Clause 17, page 15, line 20, leave out subsection (4) and in...

Lord Lennie | 787 c691 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a probing amendment concerning the territorial application of sanctions regulat...


Show all contributions (85)
Baroness Northover | 787 cc691-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment. It is useful to have more precise definitions within the Bill,...

Lord Faulks | 787 c692 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I note the nature of the amendment and the final provisions in the Bill in Clause 51(3)...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c692 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for tabling this amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c692 (Link to this contribution)

As a matter of information, it is our amendment.

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc692-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am fully cognisant of that. I meant no discourtesy to noble Lords on the Opposition Front Bench...

Lord Lennie | 787 c694 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that answer. We will consider, read carefully what he said and, perhaps,...

Lord Pannick | 787 c694 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Pannick

54: Clause 19, page 16, line 15, after “decide” insert “as soon...

Lord Pannick | 787 cc694-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is in my name and those of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and t...

Baroness Northover | 787 c695 (Link to this contribution)

This seems an eminently reasonable amendment. It almost seems unambitious in its scope—it invites...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c695 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord said, I have added my name to this amendment, and I have done so for a very goo...

Lord Judge | 787 c695 (Link to this contribution)

Without this amendment, we are leaving a recipe for lethargy, which is inappropriate. We need it ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc695-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, for t...

Lord Pannick | 787 c696 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. I look forward to hearing from him before Report that the Governme...

Lord Pannick | 787 c696 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Pannick

56: Clause 20, page 16, line 43, leave out “3 years” and insert...

Lord Pannick | 787 c696 (Link to this contribution)

Again, this amendment is in my name and the names of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and ...

Baroness Northover | 787 c697 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, was eagle-eyed as ever, and this issue came up at Second Reading. H...

Lord Pannick | 787 c697 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt, but that is the specific subject of Amendment 62, to which we are coming...

Baroness Northover | 787 c697 (Link to this contribution)

I did not spot that point. In that case, I will wait until we get to it. I hope that the Bill tea...

Lord Judge | 787 c697 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had thought of saying something but while the Minister, unlike Richard III, is in the...

Lord Lennie | 787 c697 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have heard, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has repeated the gravity of the conseq...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc697-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for tabling this amendment. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Jud...

Baroness Northover | 787 c698 (Link to this contribution)

In the Explanatory Notes accompanying the Bill, it is mentioned that sanctions apply to about 2,0...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c698 (Link to this contribution)

I am not quite sure what the noble Baroness’s question is.

Baroness Northover | 787 c698 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister was saying that this was very onerous. I am aware that there is discussion elsewhere...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c698 (Link to this contribution)

I think I understand the noble Baroness’s question, but, notwithstanding the issue of numbers alo...

Lord Pannick | 787 c698 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. It is disappointing. I am not persuaded. As the ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c700 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

58: Clause 26, page 19, line 10, at end insert—

...
Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c700 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when we had discussions with the Minister prior to Second Reading and just after, the r...

Baroness Northover | 787 c700 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, helpfully make much clear...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc700-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, they say that generosity defines the spirit of a person, so perhaps I can be slightly m...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c701 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister. I am going to take that as his continued giving mood and I certainly would ...

Lord Pannick | 787 c702 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Pannick

62: Clause 32, page 23, line 16, at end insert—

“( ) For ...

Lord Pannick | 787 cc702-3 (Link to this contribution)

This amendment is in my name and the names of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the nob...

Baroness Northover | 787 c703 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 62 is partly in the name of my noble friend Lord McNally. I knew he would not...

Bishop of Chester | 787 c703 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I heard the Minister correctly, he compared the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, to Oliver ...

Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood | 787 cc703-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment. I recognise that it is not an entirely simple point; it is not...

Lord Judge | 787 c704 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is attached to the amendment. I shall not repeat what the noble Lord, Lord Pann...

Lord Lennie | 787 c704 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had not realised that there would be quite such a debate on the application of the ru...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc704-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for tabling the amendment and all noble Lords for their contribu...

Lord Pannick | 787 c706 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. I have listened carefully, but I am not persuaded. The Minister is...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c706 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

63: Clause 35, page 26, line 16, at end insert “but...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 cc706-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group of amendments is focused on a subject matter that we repeatedly return to: n...

Lord Pannick | 787 c707 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned Amendment 72, which is in my name and his, and ...

Baroness Northover | 787 c708 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is once again trying to help the Government, and I apprec...

Lord Judge | 787 c708 (Link to this contribution)

I will not add very much, but I am beginning to think that there is a computer in every departmen...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc708-711 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord made me imagine Henry VIII’s boots for a moment.

As regards thin...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c709 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his detailed explanation. Does the Henry VIII power in Clause 44(2) allo...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c709 (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that the regulations would apply only to the sanctions themselves, but I shal...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister write to me, so that we know the Government’s position before Report?

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I was not clear: that was exactly my intention. I do not want to say something from the D...

Baroness Sheehan | 787 cc709-712 (Link to this contribution)

I am a little intrepid in saying this as I am not a lawyer or a constitutional expert but this se...

Lord Pannick | 787 c712 (Link to this contribution)

Whether I am well informed or not, can the Minister confirm that in his response on Amendment 72 ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c712 (Link to this contribution)

To pick up on that final point, of course we will. I confirm that I used “necessary”. As regards ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c712 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with many noble Lords who have decided to come back to the Minister before he sat down. H...

Baroness Northover | 787 c713 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was rather intrigued by the Minister’s definition of sanctions as being something lit...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c713 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly not a gentle nudge. What I was alluding to is that the ultimate purpose behind sa...

Baroness Northover | 787 c713 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to have that further clarification. My eyebrows rather rose at that and I was wondering...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c714 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is important to recognise that the imposition of sanctions is not just a punishment ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c714 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

66: Clause 38, page 27, line 4, at end insert—

<...
Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 cc714-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with this amendment I return to the principle of “tools for the job” and how we enable ...

Baroness Northover | 787 c715 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, once again the noble Lord, Lord Collins, seeks to assist the Government by ensuring tha...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c716 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, for tabling this amendment. I agree that sanction...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c716 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure whether that is a cup half-full or half-empty sort of response. However, I shall ta...

Lord Pannick | 787 cc716-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the nob...

Baroness Northover | 787 cc717-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, just as my noble friend Lord McNally and I opposed Clause 35 standing part of the Bill,...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c718 (Link to this contribution)

The width of this power seems extraordinary and constitutionally offensive. As I understand the d...

Lord Faulks | 787 c718 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord puts a rather sinister construction on this clause. I do not want to a...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c718 (Link to this contribution)

I intervene only to say this: I did not suggest that the motive of the Government was to do this....

Lord Hope of Craighead | 787 c719 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to take anything away from the force of the points just made by the vario...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c719 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think this is one area where the Minister will have to be in his giving mood, because...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc719-720 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions on this clause. I am hearing the messag...

Lord Pannick | 787 c720 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but if the new type of sanction is to be imposed because the...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc720-1 (Link to this contribution)

I think I mentioned Clause 7 in the preamble, but the noble Lord is correct. I was going on to sa...

Lord Paddick | 787 cc721-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in asking that Clause 40 should not stand part of the Bill, we seek the clarification t...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 cc722-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I might intervene in this debate and save the Committee some time. First, they ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that helpful and detailed explanation. As I understand him, he ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c723 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord makes an important point about ensuring appropriate time before Report...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

I am not asking for a specific date, but will it be by the end of the week, or the end of next we...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, there are already, as the noble and learned Lord will acknowledge, various issues. We ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, welcome the noble Lord’s statement that Report will not be until mid-January.

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I am being corrected by my rather forceful Whip on my left. I am sure that this matt...

Lord Paddick | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I very much welcome the support and contribution of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Fa...

Earl of Courtown | 787 c725 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the passage of business has travelled fairly quickly, I think it only fair to speake...

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