UK Parliament / Open data

Pensions Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 15 January 2014, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage fifth day. Clauses 27, 29 and 32 debated and agreed to. Clauses 28, 30, 31 and 33 to 36 agreed to. New schedule (Lords amendment 62) agreed to. Schedules 15 and 16 agreed to, with Schedule 16 agreed as amended.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

751 cc115-176GC 

Session

2013-14

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New schedules

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee
Pensions Bill 2013-14. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 30 October 2013
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2014-0070
Wednesday, 15 January 2014
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Skelmersdale | 751 c115GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn ...

Lord Freud | 751 cc115-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the purpose of this clause is to provide for the abolition of the assessed income perio...


Show all contributions (85)
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 cc116-120GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of this clause. I would like to explain why I ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 cc118-123GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I join my noble friend Lady Hollis in reviewing why this clause should stand part of th...

Baroness Meacher | 751 c121GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support my noble friends. I have just worked out that it was about 40 years ago when ...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 cc121-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, all noble Lords who have spoken have laid down a significant challenge to the Minister ...

Lord Freud | 751 c125GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall deal with the equity release issue first. Assessed income periods were never in...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c125GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt, but I am not sure that that is the case. Certainly equity release provid...

Lord Freud | 751 cc125-6GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I shall come to that. In practice, that is absolutely the case. Money taken for essential re...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c126GC (Link to this contribution)

Except, my Lords, in referring to the brief to this extent, that usually the minimum sum from any...

Lord Freud | 751 c126GC (Link to this contribution)

Once these things are put in place with the social care provisions, there may be ways of dealing ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c126GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister accept that the easiest way to change it would be simply to amend the disregard...

Lord Freud | 751 c126GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for all suggestions. The noble Lord has made the point that I was trying to make: t...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c126GC (Link to this contribution)

Is it possible that this cat might be skinned by the time we reach Report?

Lord Freud | 751 c127GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my experience of cat skinning is that it takes quite a long time, so I am not sure that...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 c127GC (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister able to help us find out how big the cat is?

Lord Freud | 751 c127GC (Link to this contribution)

I am being taken way off my brief.

Baroness Sherlock | 751 c127GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I am pressing the Minister on the comment about the assessment of how many people...

Lord Freud | 751 cc127-8GC (Link to this contribution)

No, my Lords. We do not have any precision on this, and that is one of the reasons that we want t...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c128GC (Link to this contribution)

As this is not an amendment, I do not have a formal right of reply to withdraw an amendment. Befo...

Lord Freud | 751 c128GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think there is a distinction to be made here, which the Government are making. You ca...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c128GC (Link to this contribution)

But the Government are giving the equivalent of a whole pension credit to everyone who draws thei...

Lord Freud | 751 c128GC (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Baroness is fully aware, the dividing line is actually much more spread given the co...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 cc128-9GC (Link to this contribution)

There are three questions that the Minister did not answer. I am happy for him to write to me: I ...

Lord Freud | 751 c129GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will arrange to write to the noble Baroness. I think I can deal with the second point...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c129GC (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister put something on the record? I am very concerned about issues around sanctions...

Lord Freud | 751 c129GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes a very fair point. I know that I smiled about that, but it is a real point a...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c129GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hollis of Heigham

59: Clause 29, page 15, line 13, at end insert—

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 cc130-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we move on to a different section of the Bill on bereavement benefits. In moving Amendm...

Baroness Meacher | 751 cc133-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 62ZA, but before doing so I must apologise to your Lordships—...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 751 cc134-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support these amendments very strongly. The points about bereavement have been made m...

Lord German | 751 cc135-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I raised this issue at Second Reading and have no hesitation in raising it again. I ris...

Lord Browne of Ladyton | 751 cc137-142GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 62ZZA and 62ZB, in my name and that of my noble friend Lady ...

Lord Freud | 751 c140GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by thanking noble Lords for their thoughtful speeches. I know that they have be...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c140GC (Link to this contribution)

This benefit was introduced or revised after quite a lot of work and research in 2000. In what wa...

Lord Freud | 751 c140GC (Link to this contribution)

The history is where it is thought that a partner is a dependent rather than an independent agent...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c140GC (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with the Minister, but it is my belief that since 2000 the percentage of people ...

Lord Freud | 751 cc140-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that I want to get into a debate with the noble Baroness on whether the reforms th...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c144GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the Minister could help me. He is arguing that this is an improvement and an increase in ...

Lord Freud | 751 c144GC (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, if people can live on the current bereavement payments alone, no conditionality is impli...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c144GC (Link to this contribution)

In other words, at the moment someone could get a full widow’s benefit under this, together with ...

Lord Freud | 751 cc145-6GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is looking at a pretty narrow group where people are taking general bereavemen...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

Did the Minister say “allowing people”; in other words, is he suggesting that it is the choice of...

Lord Freud | 751 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I did. There is an element of push-pull and expectation, and the expectation here is that pe...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 751 cc146-7GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise if I am interrupting the Minister when he is about to clarify something further, but ...

Lord Freud | 751 c147GC (Link to this contribution)

One of the key things is that there are clearly some terribly tragic and difficult situations inv...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c147GC (Link to this contribution)

But why, unless the Minister is actually accusing widowed parents of exploiting or milking the sy...

Lord Freud | 751 cc147-8GC (Link to this contribution)

It is important that the system sets out some generous norms against other examples we are lookin...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c148GC (Link to this contribution)

Except that it may be better for some, but what the Minister is doing is making it a requirement ...

Lord Freud | 751 cc148-9GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is now going back to the conditionality debate, but I am now going on to the a...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble Lord perhaps deal more fully with the point raised by my noble friend Lord Browne ...

Lord Freud | 751 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

We think that it is essential to retain the contributory principle, and it is reasonable for peop...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

We have been considering this for a long time and I do not want to prolong the debate, but that r...

Lord Freud | 751 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

The point is that, depending on if it is a late payment, it would be possible to make a very smal...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 cc149-150GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very appreciative of everyone’s contributions. A lot of issues have been explored,...

Lord Freud | 751 c151GC (Link to this contribution)

I want to make sure that the noble Baroness adjusts the figure of 88% on the record, because that...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 cc151-2GC (Link to this contribution)

I emphasise again that without seeing the Minister’s detailed working I will sustain the figures ...

Lord Freud | 751 cc152-7GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Freud

62: Before Schedule 15, insert the following new Schedule—

...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 c157GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Sherlock

62ZC: Clause 32, page 16, line 28, leave out “of which the...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 cc157-160GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as we move on to Part 5 of the Bill on private pensions, I want to take the opportunity...

Lord Turner of Ecchinswell | 751 cc160-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to speak in support of this amendment. When the Pensions Commission addres...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 751 c162GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the previous two speakers have covered the main arguments that I was planning to raise,...

Baroness Drake | 751 cc162-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will try not to duplicate some of the excellent contributions that have been made. Pe...

Baroness Drake | 751 cc163-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I may reiterate for continuity that the areas for concern with PFM can be group...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 751 c165GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have not spoken on this item hitherto except briefly at Second Reading. In my opinion...

Lord Bates | 751 cc165-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can certainly assure the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, that we will take very seriousl...

Baroness Drake | 751 c168GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister accept that, whereas getting every automatic enrolment qualifying scheme up to ...

Lord Bates | 751 c168GC (Link to this contribution)

The Government are not averse to excellent aspirations in a whole range of policy areas but in th...

Baroness Drake | 751 c169GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to get into that political debate because there might be some merit in what the nob...

Lord Bates | 751 c169GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and our hope and belief is that there will be higher standards. That cannot be issued by dik...

Lord Bates | 751 c169GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness always asks an honest and genuine question, and I am trying to give an honest ...

Lord Bates | 751 cc169-170GC (Link to this contribution)

He might say that but he is one of the providers and I therefore think that that is certainly wel...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 751 c170GC (Link to this contribution)

They may be getting their heads around the Government’s position, but that does not mean that the...

Lord Bates | 751 c170GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness says they do not agree with it, but when the ABI actually carried out a survey...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 751 c170GC (Link to this contribution)

Did the noble Lord not say a moment ago that perhaps the aggregator model was initially slightly ...

Lord Bates | 751 cc170-1GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes my point: it is more difficult to understand. What are we trying to do? We a...

Baroness Drake | 751 c171GC (Link to this contribution)

I would not presume to speak for the noble Lord, Lord Turner—I learn from him, not the other way ...

Lord Bates | 751 cc171-2GC (Link to this contribution)

It is a shame that the noble Lord, Lord Turner, is not here to respond to that himself or to clar...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 cc172-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that response and am also very grateful to all noble Lords who have cont...

Baroness Sherlock | 751 cc174-6GC (Link to this contribution)

That is marvellous. So the ABI backs a scheme and the survey conducted by the ABI backs the schem...

Lord Freud | 751 c176GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Freud

62A: Schedule 16, page 91, leave out lines 11 to 13

Lord Freud | 751 c176GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Freud

62B: Schedule 16, page 92, line 23, after “State” insert “or the ...

Legislation

Pensions Bill 2013-14
Back to top