UK Parliament / Open data

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 8 July 2013, in the House of Commons.
Report stage (first day). Clauses 1 and 2 amendments agreed to. Clause 4 amendments made with one amendment negatived on division (225 to 274). New clause 9 negatived on division (211 to 271). New clause 2 debated and withdrawn. New clause 4 negatived on division (217 to 272).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

566 cc47-139 

Session

2013-14

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill 2012-13 to 2013-14
Thursday, 9 May 2013
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Greg Clark | 566 c48 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 1, in page 1, line 20, after ‘body’ insert ‘or of a member of a ring-fenc...

John Bercow | 566 cc48-57 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 2 to 4.

...

Show all contributions (155)
Greg Clark | 566 cc57-8 (Link to this contribution)

This group deals with some of the recommendations of the first report of the Parliamentary Commis...

Andrew Love | 566 c58 (Link to this contribution)

The parliamentary commission requested the Government to consider giving their response—and tabli...

Greg Clark | 566 cc58-9 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the long hours he has devoted to the work of that commiss...

Pat McFadden | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I rise to seek your guidance, because the Minister is making, in...

John Bercow | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister may wish to reply, because it is important to be clear about the context in which th...

Greg Clark | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

I thought that I had explained the context at the beginning, which was that the amendment tabled ...

Andrew Love | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

May I seek some guidance from the Chair? I was about to ask a question pertinent to the discussio...

John Bercow | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; he has been a model of restraint, on which we congratulat...

Andrew Love | 566 c59 (Link to this contribution)

My question relates to the issues covered by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton So...

Greg Clark | 566 c60 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, and today and tomorrow we will go into some further detail on that point. Let me menti...

Chris Leslie | 566 c60 (Link to this contribution)

This is a very interesting situation. The Minister talks about the 13-day deadline and said that ...

Greg Clark | 566 c60 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is perfectly aware that the standard response time for a Command Paper respond...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 566 c60 (Link to this contribution)

I join my right hon. Friend in commending his officials for their amazingly speedy response. The ...

Greg Clark | 566 cc60-1 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, who was a distinguished member of the Public Bill Committee, is absolutely right....

Jonathan Edwards | 566 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The new structure that the Minister is outlining looks good on paper, but the key to its success ...

Greg Clark | 566 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. He will know from our proceedings during the passage of th...

Guy Opperman | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister agree that higher banking standards and the PRA’s new role were enthusiasticall...

Greg Clark | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s ingenious intervention allows me to pay tribute to the excellent event he hosted...

Chris Leslie | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

If the Government are so enthusiastic about the concept of regional banking, will the Minister ex...

Chris Leslie | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman did not hear me first time round. I am tempted to repeat myself, but i...

Greg Clark | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

The right way to approach this is to make it possible for regional banks to enter the market acro...

Guy Opperman | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister recall that in April last year, the Labour party, taking its lead from the hon....

John Bercow | 566 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The notion of somebody sitting not in a sedentary position is a challenging one, but I am ...

Greg Clark | 566 cc62-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly true that the hon. Member for Nottingham East is seated, and it is also true that...

Andrew Love | 566 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for being so generous in giving way. I want to take him back to ...

Greg Clark | 566 c63 (Link to this contribution)

It delights me to hear the hon. Gentleman refer to today’s publication; it confirms what I though...

Caroline Lucas | 566 c63 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister understand the disappointment of those, including me, who believe that the prop...

Greg Clark | 566 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I do not agree with that. We will come on to talk about what the commission referred to as the el...

Pat McFadden | 566 cc63-4 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is being generous in giving way. I would like to take him back to the intervention b...

Greg Clark | 566 c64 (Link to this contribution)

No. The right hon. Gentleman has not got it quite right. We are absolutely enthusiastic about cre...

Richard Fuller | 566 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his clear explanation of how the ring fence will work. ...

Greg Clark | 566 cc65-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The use of state aid is often a response in the context of dif...

Andrew Love | 566 c66 (Link to this contribution)

The parliamentary commission consulted widely and there was considerable concern about the weakne...

Greg Clark | 566 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I will be even more secure when I have persuaded the hon. Gentleman, as I hope to do. He, being a...

Steve Barclay | 566 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with the case that my right hon. Friend is making. Is there not a danger with a...

Greg Clark | 566 c67 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has some experience of these matters. I think that the debates about structure are...

Andrew Love | 566 c67 (Link to this contribution)

The reality is that we are seeking to balance conflicting issues. One respects the Government’s v...

Greg Clark | 566 cc67-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman gets to the nub of the matter, because of course any attempt to evade the ring...

Pat McFadden | 566 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I want to compare the Minister’s six-year timetable with the one that the hon. Member for Chiches...

Greg Clark | 566 cc68-9 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, I shall hear from my hon. Friend. I do not think there is any difference of inten...

Chris Leslie | 566 c69 (Link to this contribution)

It is characteristic of the Minister, with his emollient tones, sometimes to give the impression ...

Greg Clark | 566 c69 (Link to this contribution)

This is uncharacteristically ungenerous of the hon. Gentleman, as in Committee he tabled a whole ...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc69-70 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is right. Of course I thank them, but it is my sympathy for them that no...

Greg Clark | 566 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I think the hon. Gentleman is labouring under a misapprehension. The amendments in this group are...

Chris Leslie | 566 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Well, pardon me for daring to suggest that the Government have got this totally upside down and t...

Mark Field | 566 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Given that on Second Reading I suggested that much of the real deliberation would take place in t...

Chris Leslie | 566 c70 (Link to this contribution)

It probably will, particularly if there is a change of Administration, but we will come to that i...

Andrew Love | 566 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Some very eminent members of the commission are in the House of Lords, and I have absolutely no d...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc70-2 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is 100% correct, and we have made our point; I now want to move on to issues of su...

Caroline Lucas | 566 c72 (Link to this contribution)

Following the logic of what the hon. Gentleman is saying, does he not agree that a better way of ...

Chris Leslie | 566 c72 (Link to this contribution)

We have tabled an amendment, which I shall discuss shortly, suggesting a clear back-stop power fo...

Jonathan Edwards | 566 c72 (Link to this contribution)

Given what the hon. Gentleman has just said, are not the titles of the proposed new section in hi...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc72-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is true that we want to give ring-fencing a chance. That seems to be the broad consensus among...

Mark Field | 566 c73 (Link to this contribution)

Two things come to mind. First, there should be a sense of due process, which I think is present ...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc73-4 (Link to this contribution)

Most of the debate we have had in the short time available has pressed for firm action to be take...

Stewart Hosie | 566 c74 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the tone he is using on giving ring-fencing a chance and full sepa...

Chris Leslie | 566 c74 (Link to this contribution)

Those issues were covered pretty substantially by the commission in its first and second reports,...

Lord Tyrie | 566 cc74-6 (Link to this contribution)

I shall say a little more than I usually say in the House because these arrangements are quite ce...

Andrew Love | 566 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is an offence to Parliament to read about the Government’...

Lord Tyrie | 566 cc76-7 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with the hon. Gentleman and I have already made both those points, which he just...

Mark Field | 566 c77 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend talks about the idea of incentives to find holes in the ring fence. Surely it is i...

Lord Tyrie | 566 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to delay the House by disagreeing for too long. It is rare that I disagree with my...

Mark Field | 566 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I think my hon. Friend makes my point for me. The medical profession is a profession and relies o...

Lord Tyrie | 566 c78 (Link to this contribution)

There is a heap of regulation surrounding the wielding of those scalpels. The common feature of t...

Lord Tyrie | 566 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I will just this last time, but I have a lot that I want to say today, which is unusual for me.

Peter Tapsell | 566 c78 (Link to this contribution)

How can anyone read the evidence that Mr Paul Volcker gave to my hon. Friend’s commission and com...

Lord Tyrie | 566 cc78-9 (Link to this contribution)

There is considerable force in what my right hon. Friend says. We considered the issue in great d...

Pat McFadden | 566 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I want to ask the hon. Gentleman the same question that I asked the Minister about the difference...

Lord Tyrie | 566 cc79-82 (Link to this contribution)

That is something on which we can usefully take advice from the regulator, but I would have thoug...

Pat McFadden | 566 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

I do not propose to follow the hon. Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie) by making a wide-ranging spe...

Viscount Thurso | 566 c83 (Link to this contribution)

We also discussed at length the fact that, if we do not have the weapon in the armoury, we cannot...

Mark Garnier | 566 c83 (Link to this contribution)

To follow up on that point, rather than having a gun in the locker, some of these powers should b...

Pat McFadden | 566 cc83-5 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Without wishing to pursue this analogy too far, the d...

Viscount Thurso | 566 cc85-6 (Link to this contribution)

May I begin by apologising to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and to the Minister for the fact that I arr...

Kelvin Hopkins | 566 c86 (Link to this contribution)

The ordinary depositor—the ordinary working person who puts their money in their bank and wants t...

Viscount Thurso | 566 cc86-7 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes exactly the point I am in the process of making, but he does it more sim...

Mark Durkan | 566 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

In following the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), I apologise...

Mark Garnier | 566 cc88-9 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, pay tribute to the members of the parliamentary commission, with whom I served for 10 mon...

Greg Clark | 566 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a fascinating, high-quality debate. I am grateful for the contributions of all hon. M...

Lord Tyrie | 566 c90 (Link to this contribution)

I think that was a concession, so I am extremely grateful to the Minister. I am also grateful tha...

Greg Clark | 566 c91 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. I always take praise when it comes—especially fr...

Greg Clark | 566 c91 (Link to this contribution)

I have one minute left, so the right hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot give way. The p...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc102-3 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

It is a delight to see the Leader of ...

Stewart Hosie | 566 c103 (Link to this contribution)

I am very supportive of the notion of legislating now for the leverage provision, but in his new ...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc103-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has taken the trouble to look at the new clause, because i...

David Ruffley | 566 c104 (Link to this contribution)

May I unpick what the hon. Gentleman is saying? Does he mean a minimum leverage ratio or a target...

Chris Leslie | 566 c104 (Link to this contribution)

That is a very good question and I am open to debate on that. I believe that looking at that mini...

David Ruffley | 566 c104 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way, but I want to be clear about his proposi...

Chris Leslie | 566 c104 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. Let me be clear. The target that should be set would be ...

John Redwood | 566 c105 (Link to this contribution)

In the proposal, the hon. Gentleman suggests that the committee has to take into account

“a...

Chris Leslie | 566 c105 (Link to this contribution)

That raises the question of the operation of the inflation target. If I draw a parallel between a...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 566 c105 (Link to this contribution)

There are two points that occur on the hon. Gentleman’s target weighting. One is that it is very ...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc105-6 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but it would be invidious for us as politicians to try to delve ...

John Redwood | 566 cc107-8 (Link to this contribution)

I remind the House that I provide investment advice on world markets and world economies, but I a...

David Ruffley | 566 c108 (Link to this contribution)

Is my right hon. Friend as unconvinced as I am by the relatively arbitrary figure of 4% being pre...

John Redwood | 566 c108 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I agree with my hon. Friend. What I am suggesting is that I would like to get closer...

Neil Parish | 566 c108 (Link to this contribution)

One of the problems at the moment, as I know from my constituency, is that some companies are sti...

John Redwood | 566 c108 (Link to this contribution)

I think that we have wonderful agreement across the Chamber on this, which might hearten the Mini...

Andrew Love | 566 c108 (Link to this contribution)

One of the banking commission’s recommendations was that that should be devolved to the regulator...

John Redwood | 566 c109 (Link to this contribution)

I think that a Government have to take responsibility for the big calls on economic policy. They ...

Andrew Love | 566 c109 (Link to this contribution)

The Government are suggesting that the regulators will get it wrong in 2018, and the commissions ...

John Redwood | 566 c109 (Link to this contribution)

It is important that we should have proper discussion and informed debate, taking the best advice...

David Ruffley | 566 c109 (Link to this contribution)

As has been mentioned already, some in the Bank, including Sir Mervyn King, argued that insuffici...

John Redwood | 566 cc109-110 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. That point also shows that we need banks to be profitable—particularly RBS, which is stil...

Pat McFadden | 566 cc110-1 (Link to this contribution)

I will not detain the Chamber for long; I just want to make a few points.

The argument is r...

Greg Clark | 566 cc111-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to respond to this important debate. First, I should like to correct a grievous ...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc112-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the quality of the debate that has taken place in the short time we have had.

Mark Garnier | 566 c113 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman proposes that the individual leverage ratios of the banks be published, but if...

Chris Leslie | 566 c113 (Link to this contribution)

I would tend to err on the side of publication and transparency. It is long overdue that we have ...

John Redwood | 566 c113 (Link to this contribution)

RBS, against the wishes of some of us, had been allowed to grow to a colossal size and to gear ex...

Chris Leslie | 566 cc113-4 (Link to this contribution)

There is a rare consensus across the Chamber in some respects. We have to agree that the UK econo...

Steve Barclay | 566 c118 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Lindsay Hoyle | 566 cc118-9 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 3—Professional standar...

Steve Barclay | 566 cc119-121 (Link to this contribution)

In speaking to new clause 2, which I will not press to a vote, I wish to follow the line of argum...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 cc121-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak to this group of new clauses, and I thank members of the banking commis...

Andrew Love | 566 c124 (Link to this contribution)

The current regime for the regulator is “treating customers fairly”, which is exactly what the ba...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 c124 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right and he speaks with great experience, both because of the work he has done...

David Ruffley | 566 c124 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of information, what fiduciary duties, other than a duty of care, does the hon. Lady e...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 c124 (Link to this contribution)

I could go back through some of the issues that were raised in Committee. As I outlined, some of ...

Steve Barclay | 566 c125 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady not recognise that the difficulty with catch-all provisions, such as that for ...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 c125 (Link to this contribution)

I might have been tempted to support new clause 2 had the hon. Gentleman decided to put it to the...

Mark Garnier | 566 c125 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Minister raises the 10-year deferral of bonuses recommended by the Parliamentary Commi...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 cc125-6 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. It is perhaps worth remembering that not only d...

David Rutley | 566 c126 (Link to this contribution)

I am following the hon. Lady’s argument with interest. Proposed new section 43B(g) of the Employm...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 cc126-7 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a useful and probing point—I wish I had had the opportunity to probe the...

Richard Fuller | 566 c127 (Link to this contribution)

I do not wish at this moment to be unduly partisan, but could the hon. Lady advise us on the evol...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 c127 (Link to this contribution)

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, I was not in this place or, indeed, a member of the pre...

Andrew Love | 566 c127 (Link to this contribution)

This recommendation emerged from an all-party commission, with all parties supporting it. It is i...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 cc127-8 (Link to this contribution)

Again, my hon. Friend makes an important point that this is an all-party stance and that everyone...

Steve Barclay | 566 c128 (Link to this contribution)

I seek to understand the scope of new clause 13 and the financial crime unit. Would it have taken...

Cathy Jamieson | 566 cc128-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to learn that I am not going to go into the de...

Richard Fuller | 566 c129 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for the opportunity to catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to discuss...

Andrew Love | 566 c129 (Link to this contribution)

I was present on that occasion and the commission took very seriously the point that the hon. Gen...

Richard Fuller | 566 cc129-130 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention. A lot in the commission’s recommendations reflects the serio...

Mark Garnier | 566 c130 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments about my contribution to the Parliamentary Commi...

Richard Fuller | 566 cc130-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention, but I do not want to attempt to get into the debate that the...

Steve Barclay | 566 c131 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend share my incredulity that when David Strachan conducted his review at the Fin...

Richard Fuller | 566 c131 (Link to this contribution)

I am appreciative of that intervention, which adds not only to my body of knowledge, but to the c...

Jonathan Edwards | 566 c131 (Link to this contribution)

To what extent has the hon. Gentleman been influenced by events in Iceland, where the bankers wer...

Richard Fuller | 566 c132 (Link to this contribution)

I must admit that I am not particularly familiar with Iceland—certainly not as familiar as the ho...

Andrew Love | 566 cc132-3 (Link to this contribution)

I will comment on the commission’s thought processes on some of the issues that the hon. Gentlema...

Steve Barclay | 566 c133 (Link to this contribution)

In essence, the hon. Gentleman is describing the purpose of new clause 2. Earlier, I alluded to t...

Andrew Love | 566 cc133-4 (Link to this contribution)

Personally, I oppose retrospective legislation. It was not considered by the commission, which do...

David Ruffley | 566 cc134-5 (Link to this contribution)

I shall make two brief points. First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North East Cam...

Greg Clark | 566 cc135-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to respond to this well-informed debate. I start by welcoming the hon. Member fo...

Greg Clark | 566 cc137-9 (Link to this contribution)

This summer.

New clause 11 concerns the new criminal offence of reckless misconduct recomme...

Steve Barclay | 566 c139 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a full and constructive debate that builds on the cross-party nature of the work of t...

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