UK Parliament / Open data

Health and Social Care Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 9 November 2011, in the House of Lords.
Health and Social Care Bill. Lords committee stage fourth day. Clauses 4 and 5 agreed to. New clauses considered.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

732 c241-308 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Health and Social Care Bill. In two volumes. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 92-EN also published.
Thursday, 8 September 2011
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Constitution Select Committee (HL) eighteenth report on the Health and Social Care Bill.
Wednesday, 14 September 2011
Parliamentary committees
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Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Nineteenth report on: Health and Social Care Bill; London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Amendment) Bill; Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill. (Lords Minutes).
Friday, 14 October 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Murphy | 732 c259-61, (corrigendum) 442-3 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but I think it is the direct result of Clause 4. I shall continue my theme, if I may. It...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 732 c261, (corrigendum) 443-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether I may contribute. It is perhaps rather rash of me as it will be obvious t...

Show all contributions (91)
Lord Darzi of Denham | 732 c261-3, (corrigendum) 444-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I enter the debate speaking as a professional working in the health service, but also as s...
Baroness Murphy | 732 c259, (corrigendum) 442 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may respond. It is a direct result of that chain of command that goes from the Secretary o...
Baroness Thornton | 732 c259, (corrigendum) 442 (Link to this contribution) My point to the noble Baroness is that I do not believe that it will change.
Baroness Thornton | 732 c259, (corrigendum) 442 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness. I am listening carefully to her because she has great ex...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c267-71 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may, I will say to your Lordships’ House that this group of amendments is about Kevin...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c297 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 39 withdrawn. Amendments 40 to 41 not moved. A...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c289-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, with the greatest respect, I will not go into who left me the junior hospital doctors issu...
Lord Kakkar | 732 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support many of the amendments in the group. I do so as a biomedical research and clinic...
Lord Warner | 732 c241 (Link to this contribution) 37: Clause 4, page 3, line 9, leave out ““manner that it considers most appropriate”” and insert ““i...
Lord Warner | 732 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the absence of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, I should like to speak to Amendment 37 as my...
Lord Mawhinney | 732 c242 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord. Is he aware that the concern which he has just expressed ...
Lord Warner | 732 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that intervention. The more the merrier, I say, on this theme an...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 732 c271-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I warmly support this group of amendments, so ably proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Willis...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c267 (Link to this contribution) 39: Clause 5, page 3, line 16, leave out ““have regard to the need to””
Earl Howe | 732 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. As she has indicated, there is certainly a read-across from Cla...
Lord Warner | 732 c267 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is a film showing in local cinemas called ““We Need to Talk About Kevin””; I think t...
Baroness Jay of Paddington | 732 c266 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for interrupting during the Minister’s conclusion but I hope this will be help...
Earl Howe | 732 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, think this has been a very valuable debate and I thank all noble Lords for their c...
Baroness Thornton | 732 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to Clause 4 stand part. We have had a very good debate, to which my n...
Baroness Wall of New Barnet | 732 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not intended to participate in the debate because I did not arrive until it had star...
Lord Beecham | 732 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an important and thoughtful debate which I am sure will inform the discussio...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 732 c259-61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to join in this debate, because it has been fascinating and wide ranging, and I...
Baroness Tonge | 732 c261 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I intend to be very brief because we have already had a long debate, but I am bursting to ...
Lord Mawhinney | 732 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) Moving on, I remind my noble friend of the times we sat with a cup of coffee and a private secretary...
Lord Warner | 732 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I compliment the noble Lord on his speech and say that we hope to see him every day of thi...
Baroness Murphy | 732 c257-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, could I try to cheer up the Committee? We are getting very gloomy about this topic. To me,...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 732 c259 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to say only a few words. I cannot agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, t...
Lord Mawhinney | 732 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. The answer to her question is no. No, I was not trying to isolate ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c255 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend agree, however, that when I was putting forward the case, I said that we would ...
Bishop of Chester | 732 c256 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Davies, was right to refer to besetting sins behind me.
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c256 (Link to this contribution) That sounds very suggestive, my Lords.
Baroness Thornton | 732 c247 (Link to this contribution) I do apologise to the noble Baroness, but I absolutely cannot resist asking her whether she thinks t...
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c247-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have not seen any evidence from MORI or any other polling organisation that has put that...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c246 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, will allow a moment’s interruption to her speech, ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, who has put the matter eloquently and corre...
Lord Mawhinney | 732 c253-5 (Link to this contribution) I noticed that the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, pointed to me when he talked about making a ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 732 c249-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the first thing I want to say in the light of the Minister’s comments a moment ago is that...
Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 732 c251-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as my noble friend the Minister points out, the autonomy clauses are to form part of the G...
Earl Howe | 732 c245 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have no desire to take this clause out of the Committee proceedings. These proceedings a...
Lord Warner | 732 c245 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl is taking this clause out of the Committee stage, so far as I understand his proposal...
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c245 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought that that was the whole purpose of Committee stage. This stage is intended to qu...
Lord Patel | 732 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I offer my sincere apologies to the House for being delayed. I was also thrown by t...
Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very strongly support the spirit of Clause 4, and I oppose the amendment that the clause...
Lord Warner | 732 c245 (Link to this contribution) I am not opposed to having a strategy, if I may say so to the noble Baroness, and I thank her for gi...
Lord Warner | 732 c296 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to prolong this debate. I will read very carefully what the Minister said about protec...
Earl Howe | 732 c295 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I am not putting my neck on the block, but within a month the noble Lord should hear new...
Lord Warner | 732 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in doing that will the Minister clarify what ““health service”” means? As I read the Bill,...
Earl Howe | 732 c296 (Link to this contribution) I should be very glad to do so. The noble Lord may not be surprised to hear that, when I was being b...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c296 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for, as ever, a very courteous and thoughtful response to many of the...
Earl Howe | 732 c291-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree that this has been an absolutely excellent debate and I have listened very careful...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c295 (Link to this contribution) I should apologise to the noble Earl. The amendment was put down to probe the issues.
Earl Howe | 732 c295 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. In that case I shall not dwell on it at great length. Amendme...
Lord Turnberg | 732 c295 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Earl give us any idea of the timescale over which we might see something emerging from...
Lord Warner | 732 c289 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, things went downhill when I left at the end of December 2006.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c289 (Link to this contribution) Yes my Lords, but so was the overriding duty of Ofgem to the customer. The problem is how a regulato...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate, and I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wi...
Earl Howe | 732 c289 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the primary duty of Monitor, as the noble Lord will have observed, is to patients. That is...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 732 c287 (Link to this contribution) In intervening in this interesting debate, I shall be very brief. I simply want the Minister to expl...
Baroness Emerton | 732 c286 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have appreciated all the contributions on the amendments on research. There is just one ...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 732 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add my support to Amendment 42. I declare an obvious conflict: I am a recipient of fundi...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 732 c284-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was delighted to lend my name in support of these amendments. We have had a tremendous d...
Earl Howe | 732 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 45, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, seeks to impose on the Secretary...
Lord Rooker | 732 c308 (Link to this contribution) For the public health directors, who will be the employer? Will it be the local authority? In the se...
Earl Howe | 732 c308 (Link to this contribution) They will be employed by local authorities. It is too soon to say to the noble Lord what the pay gra...
Lord MacKenzie of Culkein | 732 c308 (Link to this contribution) The Minister spoke about the value of the pay review body being independent, but I was not clear whe...
Earl Howe | 732 c308 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we value the pay review bodies, and there are no plans to disturb them at the moment. I so...
Baroness Wheeler | 732 c308 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister and other noble Lords who contributed to the debate, particularly my ...
Baroness Murphy | 732 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, by now it will be no surprise to the Opposition that I do not support this amendment. It s...
Lord Rooker | 732 c304-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I intervene briefly in this debate. It also gives me the opportunity to apologise to the H...
Lord MacKenzie of Culkein | 732 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 45 and to follow on from my noble friend Lady Wheeler. I have ...
Baroness Thornton | 732 c298 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord raised a very interesting and important point, but I do not intend to delay the House...
Earl Howe | 732 c298-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 41A, tabled by my noble friend Lord Willis, will require the Secretary of State ...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c297-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief. In simple terms, the Secretary of State now has a duty to promote research. C...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 732 c298 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Willis, has raised this extremely important matter. Re...
Baroness Wheeler | 732 c300 (Link to this contribution) 45: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause— ““The Secretary of State’s duty as to national ...
Baroness Wheeler | 732 c300-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am pleased to move this important amendment, supported by my noble friends Lady Thornton...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c299 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for that response. In view of it, I beg leave to withd...
Earl Howe | 732 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) 43: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause— ““The Secretary of State’s duty as to education...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 732 c297 (Link to this contribution) 41A: Clause 5, page 3, line 19, at end insert— ““( ) the proper conduct of research by establishing ...
Lord Turnberg | 732 c275-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendments 40A and 199ZA in my name. I also want to comment on some oth...
Lord Warner | 732 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 40 and 42 in my name and those of other noble Lords. I also su...
Lord Patel | 732 c281 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my brief is brief—and I shall be brief. First, I congratulate the Government on putting th...
Lord Ribeiro | 732 c281 (Link to this contribution) I rather suspected that the noble Lord did. That is why I felt able to make that reference. None the...
Lord Warner | 732 c281 (Link to this contribution) I think that I got out in time.
Lord Ribeiro | 732 c278-81 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak in support of Amendments 40 and 42, which, as the noble Lord, Lord Willis, s...
Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe | 732 c282-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was really pleased to see Clause 5 extend the duties of the Secretary of State with rega...
Lord Rea | 732 c284 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a short question, on a subject mentioned by my noble friend Lord Turnberg and other...
Lord Ribeiro | 732 c281 (Link to this contribution) I gave a historical perspective. We started research in the 18th century. We may not have done it as...
Lord Patel | 732 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I should also tell the noble Lord that his laparoscopic training is also historical because robots a...

Notes

Due to a serious processing error, 15 minutes of transcribed text of the debate on Amendment 37, immediately following the speech of Baroness Murphy at col. 259, was omitted from the Daily Part.

Subjects

Conditions of employment
Health
Finance
Health professions
NHS
Ministerial powers
Pay
Management
Staff
Pay settlements
Research
Medical Research Council
NHS Commissioning Board
Public Health England
National Institute for Health and Care Research
Health Research Authority
Clinical commissioning groups

Legislation

Health and Social Care Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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