UK Parliament / Open data

Localism Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 20 June 2011, in the House of Lords.

Localism Bill. Lords committee stage first day. Clauses 1 to 11 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

728 c1045-1100, c1122-44

Session

2010-12

Proceeding contributions

Lord Greaves | 728 c1045 (Link to this contribution) 1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Purpose of this Act (1) The purpose of this A...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1060-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank everybody—it practically is everybody—in this Committee for starting this Bill off...

Show all contributions (136)

Lord Beecham | 728 c1063 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply in general but, more particularly, for the last p...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Without wishing to prolong the debate, I should like to endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, h...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1065 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this group might take us a little less time. In moving Amendment 2, I shall speak to Amend...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1065 (Link to this contribution) 2: Clause 1, page 2, line 1, leave out ““or elsewhere””

Lord Beecham | 728 c1065-6 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps in the absence of any other contribution, I might make a suggestion to the noble Lord. I do ...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord care to recall what happened at the subsequent general elections?

Lord Greaves | 728 c1063 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister’s last two announcements are extremely welcome and I am quite prepared to tra...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1063-5 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Government were returned to power with a smaller majority in both elections of 1910. Tha...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am tempted to thank the noble Lord on the opposition Benches for answering the question ...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c1067 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before my noble friend responds, perhaps I may ask the Minister about Amendment 3. I entir...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1066 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that everything that he has mentioned has taken place and is taking place,...

Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 728 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an extremely important amendment. Although my noble friend proposes it as a probin...

Bishop of Exeter | 728 c1070-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome this amendment with its intention to remedy what is at least a perceived gap at ...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1068-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important amendment on sustainable development. There is growing concern that t...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1068 (Link to this contribution) 4: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Objective of the general power (1) A local aut...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1068 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure that I understood that last exchange; I shall read Hansard carefully so that...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1045-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as it is the beginning of Committee, I should declare my interests yet again. I am an elec...

Lord Lucas | 728 c1049 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I look forward to addressing the questions that the noble Baroness, Lady Farrington of Rib...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 728 c1048-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, has had a long, distinguished and occasionally challenging c...

Lord Shipley | 728 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Greaves because I believe that defin...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1049-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there was much in my noble friend’s speech in moving the amendment with which one could no...

Lord Plumb | 728 c1052 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome the comment of my noble friend Lord Jenkin that the good points made by the nobl...

Lord Ouseley | 728 c1051 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome the discussion on this amendment, which gives us an opportunity to consider the ...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c1053 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take issue with my noble friend Lord Taylor only to the extent that we should start with...

Lord Elystan-Morgan | 728 c1053-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have considerable sympathy with the sentiment behind the proposed new clause. Ever since...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 728 c1054-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it seems a long time ago now, but I spent 28 years in local government. The noble Lord, Lo...

Baroness Byford | 728 c1055-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was very disappointed not to be able to speak at Second Reading as this is a matter very...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1058 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, declare an interest as a councillor in Newcastle upon Tyne and as a vice-president...

Lord Tope | 728 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I did not mean to imply that these things are simple and easy a...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 728 c1057 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does the noble Lord accept that in the cases that he and I cited, that applied, but that i...

Lord Tope | 728 c1056-7 (Link to this contribution) This is the first time I have spoken in Committee and I again declare that I am a councillor in the ...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1059-60 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely apologise to the noble Lord. I sometimes felt closer to him than to the former noble Lor...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1059 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, and I have known each other for a great many years, but perhaps I may ...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c1058 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord agree that a better term might be ““postcode democracy””?

Lord Beecham | 728 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I endorse the amendments and the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Tope, has asked becau...

Lord Tope | 728 c1085 (Link to this contribution) 10: Clause 3, page 3, line 13, leave out ““, or could be done,””

Lord Tope | 728 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 10 stands in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, as does Amendment...

Lord Tope | 728 c1083 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 7, 8 and 9. In common with the rest of local government, ...

Lord Tope | 728 c1083 (Link to this contribution) 6: Clause 2, page 2, line 13, leave out subsections (1) and (2)

Lord Greaves | 728 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that. I will read it carefully, and I will take advice f...

Lord Tope | 728 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for her reply, which I will read with great interest tomorrow. I am st...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1084 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, contracting out is clearly one of the ways in which a local authority can carry out its se...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c1084 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled by the answer about contracting out. Is not what is important that a local authority en...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his question. The general power is drafted on the basis that l...

Lord Wigley | 728 c1080 (Link to this contribution) In fact, the Welsh Local Government Association is very exercised about having clarity in this Bill....

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord opposite for trying to cut him out on the way. As I was saying before...

Lord Wigley | 728 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness. If this is just an in-case provision—in case a change in f...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I will have to take advice about that because I was not expecting that question. I will write to the...

Lord Wigley | 728 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 18 stands in my name and is grouped with Amendment 5. Before getting into my own...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 5 is grouped with an amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. I do not normal...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1080 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, a few years ago I had the pleasure and privilege of chairing a review into local public se...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1080 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope I will be able to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. I am so sorry—

Lord Greaves | 728 c1078 (Link to this contribution) 5: Schedule 1, page 188, line 10, leave out paragraphs 2 to 4

Lord Greaves | 728 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, again I am grateful to all noble Lords who took part in this debate, which has been slight...

Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 728 c1077 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly. I welcome two aspects of what the Minister said. The first is her re...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1074-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we should congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for giving us an early opportunity, d...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1076-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand that this is a probing amendment and I thank all noble Lords who have taken p...

Lord Lucas | 728 c1074 (Link to this contribution) I therefore think that this is a very important thing to get right. I shall listen to the Minister w...

Lord Tope | 728 c1074 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving the amendment, to which I have added my name, my noble friend made it clear that...

Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 728 c1074 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, that is precisely why, if we are to have a Bill that makes the definition of sustai...

Lord Lucas | 728 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I enjoyed what my noble friend Lord Taylor of Goss Moor said, and I would like to hear mor...

Lord True | 728 c1073 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I declare an interest as the leader of a local authority in London. I also thank my noble ...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 728 c1073 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I say anything else, I should probably declare an interest, which I hope that I do ...

Lord Lawson of Blaby | 728 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an instructive exchange, so far. No one has been able to define sustainable ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 33 withdrawn. Clause 11 agreed.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1142-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for her brief reply. Clearly, we need to get back to these serious is...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1144 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for that. It would be helpful if we came back to all this. In the mean time,...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1142 (Link to this contribution) If I may express a view, I have to say that I think that that is the right course because it may wel...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1142 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have removed—or will remove as we go through, as I understand it—the mayoral arrangemen...

Lord True | 728 c1138 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it could be that my attention wandered a little, in which case I apologise to the noble Lo...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1138-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lord has said, this was discussed in the other place. My honourable friend An...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1139 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for his support for the amendments. Clearly he is kn...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1139 (Link to this contribution) 33: Clause 11, page 19, line 32, leave out ““Part 1A”” and insert ““Parts 1A and 1B””

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1139-41 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to the other amendments in this group. Amendment 33 sits alongside Amen...

Lord True | 728 c1141 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having been vaguely disobliging on the noble Lord’s previous amendment, I have a question ...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1141-2 (Link to this contribution) I have a question on this which arises from the extremely helpful statement that my noble friend mad...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1142 (Link to this contribution) No doubt the Minister will clarify this for us. I have not had a chance to go through all of the ame...

Lord Shipley | 728 c1138 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment. It is important that we understand the important role that ITAs a...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1136-8 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 32 introduces a new clause related to integrated transport authorities and passenger trans...

Lord Best | 728 c1094 (Link to this contribution) I have not spoken in the Committee stage, so I declare my interest as president of the Local Governm...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 728 c1093-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having already declared my wife as an interest, I will not repeat that. However, in view o...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely, except that I did make changes to the grouping. As a result of this, we are where ...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, will she confirm that she has repeated the explanation that was gi...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1095-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in reply to that last question, the powers to amend legislation are relative to the use of...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 728 c1095 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not intended to intervene but I am tempted because I need to ask the Minister one qu...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1094-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to add something to what my noble friend Lord Newton of Braintree and the noble Lor...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry that I disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Newton, by my uncharacteristically diffi...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall comment briefly on the consultation amendments in my name, Amendments 16 and 17. T...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1098 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I said in my remarks that I understood what the recommendation was and that we...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1088 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Clause 4(1) provides that an authority may, "““do things for a commercial purpose””;" tha...

Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 728 c1087 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to join this brief exchange because I am developing an increasing sense of Alice in...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1088 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that it would help everybody if I replied in writing. Clause 4 agreed. Clause 5 ...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 728 c1088 (Link to this contribution) I, too, am slightly confused. I remember sitting in the Minister’s seat when we were discussing the ...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1088-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important clause. It is almost a case of the Secretary of State giveth and the ...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1088 (Link to this contribution) 12: Clause 5, page 4, line 10, leave out subsection (3)

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1092 (Link to this contribution) To be a little bit pedantic, I am perfectly happy to answer those questions, but I think we are on t...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have Amendments 16 and 17 in this group and, because of the usual vagaries of grouping, ...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1092 (Link to this contribution) If my noble friend objected to the grouping and thought that the amendments should have been put tog...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. I shall explain it all again, because there is a mess-up in the groupings and it is bes...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 728 c1133 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for her thoughtful response, which is, I think, confirmation that core...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1131-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think that I can reassure the noble Baroness about everything at this stage, as s...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 728 c1128-31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 30 and 31. I am seeking some clarity with the probing Ame...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1127-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 26 withdrawn. Clause 7 agreed. Clause 8 : Interp...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1127 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if the Minister could help me on one point, although I have not participated in this debate...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1126-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I confirm that the statutory instrument relating to this is in the Library and has been th...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c1133-6 (Link to this contribution) 32: After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause— ““Integrated Transport Authorities and Passeng...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1126 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on the affirmative business, I think that the noble Lord and the Minister will know that t...

Baroness Byford | 728 c1124 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister will clarify this when she responds because I am still not quite clear. If loca...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1124 (Link to this contribution) I am not a lawyer but lawyers could look at the amendment to see whether the wording is wrong. The a...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1125-6 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for the Minister’s response. On Amendment 24, I shall take further soundings from...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1125 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall start with Amendment 24 because the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, has asked me to c...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1122 (Link to this contribution) 19: Clause 6, page 4, line 32, leave out ““make provision”” and insert ““make an order””

Earl Attlee | 728 c1100 (Link to this contribution) In moving that the House be resumed, perhaps I may suggest that the Committee stage begins again not...

Baroness Byford | 728 c1124 (Link to this contribution) Can my noble friend enlarge on his Amendment 24? I am not quite sure that I understand it correctly ...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1122-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving Amendment 19, I shall speak also to Amendments 20 and 24, but I should it make i...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1126 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are three short amendments here. The first simply reaffirms previous amendments, whi...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1126 (Link to this contribution) 26: Clause 7, page 5, line 27, leave out ““negative,””

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I did not give notice of my intention to ask a question about Clause 4, but I have listened to the d...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will try to be a little more helpful. Part of the answer is that the Government believe ...

Lord Greaves | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend responds, the crucial question that comes to mind is this: if the provision a...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1087 (Link to this contribution) The existing situation is that current legislation limits what can be done, and this continues to li...

Lord Tope | 728 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for her offer to write, which it is hoped will clarify the situation. ...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the answer to that will have to come in a note, I am afraid, because I am not clear about ...

Lord Tope | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her answer, but I am bound to say that I am not any the ...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord could offer the Minister the example of a meals on wheels service that an aut...

Lord Tope | 728 c1086 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I am happy to offer the Minister the example of a meals on wheels service, which has just co...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, ““the costs of provision””, the term used in Clause 3(3), could mean only the direct costs...

Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 728 c1052-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendment, because it goes to the heart of the fundamental iss...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 728 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for clarifying that, but in fact there are some amendments, that tak...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 728 c1128 (Link to this contribution) 29: Clause 9, page 8, leave out lines 33 to 41

Lord Beecham | 728 c1066 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think that it is necessary for me to answer that. We are talking about a general ...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course we expect councils to act in the best interests of the communities that they ser...

Lord Beecham | 728 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) I would not say that it is a better definition, but I would accept it as an additional definition. H...

Baroness Hanham | 728 c1127 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would have to get an answer to that for the noble Lord. I am not sure. This specifically...

Subjects

Devolved matters

Community development

Devolution

Council tax

Contracts for services

Fees and charges

Land

Legislative competence

Legislation

Fire and rescue services

Local government

Ministerial powers

Public transport

Referendums

Local government services

Parish and town councils

Passenger transport executives

Recreation spaces

Parks

Sustainable development

Wales

Rights of way

Rescue services

Mayors

Legislation

Localism Bill 2010-12

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