Localism Bill

My Lords, again I am grateful to all noble Lords who took part in this debate, which has been slightly enlightening and has taken us forward a little. I am particularly grateful to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Exeter and to my noble friend Lord Taylor of Goss Moor for their strong support. As I listened to my noble friend just now, I thought that the greatest economic growth in this country during the past few hundred years was the Industrial Revolution, and how much better that revolution would have been—surely it would not have been stymied in any serious way—if environmental considerations had played a much greater part in development during that period instead of the massive attacks on the physical environment: the quality of air and all the rest of it. It has cost an enormous amount of money to clean it up since. It is not just economic growth, is it? It is the way you do it; it is regulation in ways that protect the environment and finding ways in which economic growth can be environmentally beneficial. I am afraid that I disagree fundamentally with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson of Blaby. He said that the phrase ““sustainable development”” is meaningless. I have some sympathy with that part of his argument because I have said that in many ways from the Benches in the other corner of the Chamber on almost every Bill affecting the environment since I came into this House. People have continually been willing to use the phrase ““sustainable development”” without pinning down what it means. I do not believe that pinning it down would result in a legal nightmare; I think it would result in clarity. Both the previous Government and this Government have been moving towards a much clearer definition of what it means, and that is to be welcomed. I very much welcome the sympathy—perhaps I will get some tea as well, I do not know—which this amendment elicited from the Minister on this occasion. The problem with it is very simple; the Government are now saying on every occasion that there will be a presumption in favour of sustainable development, and it is not possible to keep on saying that without having a fairly clear idea—you can keep on saying it, but it is not sensible—of what it means. My noble friend Lord Lucas said that he fears that any definition would result in interminable legislation. As my noble friend Lord Taylor said, if there is no definition, that is when interminable legislation is likely. The noble Lord, Lord True, noted that the amendment applies to the core of the Bill, not just to the planning part. That was absolutely deliberate. I understand his point, but it was deliberate because we believe that sustainable development affects far more than simply the functions of local authorities and other bodies in planning. I do not think I have anything else to say on this. I accept the Minister’s sympathy. I will glow in that sympathy for a short while, and on that basis I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 4 withdrawn. Schedule 1 : General power of competence: consequential amendments Amendment 5 Schedule 1 : General power of competence: consequential amendments Amendment 5 Moved by