UK Parliament / Open data

European Union Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 23 May 2011, in the House of Lords.
European Union Bill. Lords committee stage seventh day. Clause 7 : Decisions requiring approval by Act, agreed to. Clause 8: Decisions under Article 353 of TFEU, agreed to. Clause 9: Approval required in connection with Title V of Part 3 of TFEU, agreed to. Clause 10: Parliamentary control of certain decisions not requiring approval by Act, agreed to. Clause 11: Persons entitled to vote in referendum, agreed to. Clause 12: Separate questions, agreed to. Clause 13: role of the Electoral Commission, agreed to. Clause 14: Consequential amendments and repeals relating to Part 1, agreed to. Clause 15 to 17 agreed to. Schedule 2 agreed to. Clause 18: Status of EU law dependent on continuing statutory basis, agreed to. Clauses 19 to 21 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

727 c1594-634 

Session

2010-12

Department

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

European Union Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 55-EN also published.
Wednesday, 9 March 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1671-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord has touched on a number of the issues that we have already covered. He asks...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 727 c1670 (Link to this contribution) I will make just one point. Will the noble Lord, Lord Howell, include in his consideration that ther...

Show all contributions (130)
Lord Lea of Crondall | 727 c1670 (Link to this contribution) 58: Clause 18, page 12, line 9, at end insert— ““( ) This section does not affect the United Kingdom...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1669-70 (Link to this contribution) I have read that report, though it gave me a pain between the ears to do so. The noble Lord will und...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1664-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, what has come through in the debate is that it is hard to see a strong purpose for Clause ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1665-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will look first at Amendments 57 and 58 and then come to the vagueness charges embodied ...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1663-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak briefly to underline what my noble friend Lord Stoddart has said and to put ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1669 (Link to this contribution) The debate that we have had over the past hour and a half has been valuable. I imagine that it has n...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1669 (Link to this contribution) I was not the one proposing those Acts of Parliament. I was simply quoting directly what the Europea...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1668 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to spend a little time ruminating on something that the Minister said. He sai...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1668 (Link to this contribution) I am proceeding on this subject on the close advice of lawyers. I am advised that even if we repeale...
Lord Dykes | 727 c1601 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a further irony that shows how throughout the Bill, from Clauses 2, 3 and 4 up to Claus...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1601 (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords, I do not agree with that. In the process of any kind of discussion, people will say so...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1594-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak to the question of whether Clause 7 should stand part principally to draw ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 727 c1597-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I follow the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, by asking similar questions. The phrase ““or otherwise...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 727 c1598 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak briefly to a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 727 c1598-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my noble friend will forgive me for breaking into her remarks but I find it hard to unde...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 727 c1599 (Link to this contribution) I was getting to that. Whoever said that EU legislation was dull and boring should see the enthusias...
Lord Richard | 727 c1599 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have looked at this section and tried to construe and understand it, which was difficult...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1599-601 (Link to this contribution) I have the same difficulties that have been expressed by a number of noble Lords in this debate. Bro...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 727 c1601 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord then agree that ““or otherwise support”” could as easily imply assent—in other w...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1603-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, for indicating his general support for at ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1604 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord confirm that he will take away and look at all the references in the legislation...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1601-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can only say that I strongly agree with the point that the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, has m...
Lord Empey | 727 c1602-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister replies, perhaps I may take up the point which the noble Lord, Lord Tr...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1604-5 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the point that I am making. I mentioned the European patent, which is a good examp...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1605 (Link to this contribution) If we are talking about a specific enhanced co-operation, and the Minister accepts that we are, we h...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1604 (Link to this contribution) Reflections on the words as they appear here will be bound to have cross-reading repercussions. I wi...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1604 (Link to this contribution) I had hoped that the Minister would score another boundary: he was starting splendidly with his exeg...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 727 c1657 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I intervene as one who is not learned in the law, unlike most previous speakers. I put dow...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1655-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak after the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe of Aberavon. He speaks with gr...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1656 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to introduce an inquiring note to this love-in. I do not know whether noble Lor...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1649-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may go slightly off-piste and thank the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, fo...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 727 c1650-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in this group is Amendment 59, to which I have put my name along with distinguished collea...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 727 c1651-2 (Link to this contribution) When I read Clause 18, I took the view that it corresponds to what is our practice in this country, ...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 727 c1652-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I rise to support this debate, I sense a curious parallel of feelings. Quite recently I...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 727 c1647 (Link to this contribution) I put it to the Minister that this Bill will be seen by our partners on the continent of Europe and ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1647-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the noble Lord back to our debate although I am not sure that I welcome the spirit of his ...
Lord Radice | 727 c1648-9 (Link to this contribution) This has been a good debate. We have heard a lot of views, some of which have been predictable, and ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1649 (Link to this contribution) 57: Clause 18, page 12, line 9, at end insert— ““( ) This section does not alter the existing relati...
Lord Deben | 727 c1661-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have not been able to support the Government at all times during the passage of this Bil...
Lord Dykes | 727 c1659-61 (Link to this contribution) It can be done? Thank you for the answer. I was not quite sure. I am very glad that the noble Lord,...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1661 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I oppose all the amendments, and indeed the clause itself, because of a simple proposition...
Lord Dykes | 727 c1659 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall be brief. I probably do not have sufficient experience of Committee stages in this...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 727 c1657-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will briefly address three issues. The first is the issue of whether we need this clause...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 727 c1658-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it might be convenient if I spoke to Amendment 58. It is not in this group, but it is very...
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 727 c1657 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe, for saying that. I do not feel any...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1628 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that the noble Lord is propounding a pretty odd doctrine. Britain has been a member o...
Lord Blackwell | 727 c1628 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may give way to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay.
Lord Clinton-Davis | 727 c1629 (Link to this contribution) I have rarely heard such piffle from any Member of this House as we have just heard. To suggest that...
Lord Blackwell | 727 c1629 (Link to this contribution) I may be corrected, but I am not aware that there is any statutory requirement for Ministers to make...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 727 c1629 (Link to this contribution) It is a speech. Many years ago, I shared the view of many members of the Labour Party when I express...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1629 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a frankly eccentric amendment.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1630-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, obviously I do not support this amendment. I do not know whether the noble Lord, Lord Radi...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 727 c1630 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may add just one dimension to the idea that referendums are neutral so far as th...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1630 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, was that an intervention or not? The idea that Government Ministers should be under a le...
Viscount Simon | 727 c1643 (Link to this contribution) We resume on Amendment 55B. Debate on Amendment 55B resumed.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1633-4 (Link to this contribution) The amendment refers to the failure of Governments and Ministers to promote the European Union; what...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 727 c1632-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not believe that the noble Lord, Lord Radice, was suggesting that there should be a l...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1645-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was going to begin my comments by congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Radice, on the ver...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1644-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome this amendment from my noble friend Lord Radice, whose expertise on Europe is we...
Lord Dykes | 727 c1643-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the Deputy Chairman for being rather hasty in beginning. That was partly be...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1620-1 (Link to this contribution) That would be just typical of the Eurocrats. However, it is true that the Conservatives forced thro...
Lord Garel-Jones | 727 c1620 (Link to this contribution) I have some advantage over both the noble Lord and the British press: I happened to be there at the ...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1621 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, obviously the past is made up of facts but, as today has illustrated richly, the retelling...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1624 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to answer that now: perhaps it will enable us to avoid having a debate on Clause 13, whic...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1624 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure that I heard the noble Lord answer a question put by the noble Lord, Lord St...
Lord Flight | 727 c1622 (Link to this contribution) A problem for Ireland when it adopted the euro was that the inflation rate there was much higher tha...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1622 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, however many times the Irish people were asked to vote would have been a matter for the Go...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1623-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this debate has ranged a little wider than the amendment. We have had accusations of the E...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1622-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, anybody who looks at the difficulties that have been experienced in many mature economies,...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1625 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken, particularly to those noble Lords who supported th...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1625 (Link to this contribution) I will refer back to the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1625 (Link to this contribution) I am most obliged to the Minister for giving way again, but the point about MEPs is that they will b...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1624-5 (Link to this contribution) I seem to remember that in both the Danish and the Irish referendums there was substantial assistanc...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1624 (Link to this contribution) I asked about the new rules which would allow European political parties to campaign in any country ...
Lord Blackwell | 727 c1628 (Link to this contribution) I think that that just illustrates the point that different Members of this Committee will have diff...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 727 c1628 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord really contend that Ministers have performed their duty already? I hear the voic...
Lord Blackwell | 727 c1628 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will not be surprised that I cannot agree with his amendment. Arguments are put forwa...
Lord Radice | 727 c1626-8 (Link to this contribution) I move this amendment in the belief that if this amendment, or something like it, is written into th...
Lord Radice | 727 c1625 (Link to this contribution) 55B: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Promotion of United Kingdom’s membership of...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1614-5 (Link to this contribution) Unlike the majority of amendments that we have discussed at some length so far, this amendment is in...
Lord Liddle | 727 c1615 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of accuracy about what happened, is the noble Lord not aware of the fact that in France...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1613-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may start by answering the noble Baroness, Lady Williams. If I am correct—I am n...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1614 (Link to this contribution) 53: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— ““Repeat referendums Where a referendum has be...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1615-6 (Link to this contribution) That is right. It is history now, but I believe that they were voting on the constitution and they v...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 727 c1616 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has made a very good case for the weakness of referenda. However, I ask him to consid...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1615 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very familiar with that argument, which was wheeled out after the constitutional refe...
Lord Dykes | 727 c1612-3 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, my Lords, I strongly support the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard—an...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 727 c1613 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my point is even briefer. Can the Minister give a little explanation of the Motion being “...
Lord Garel-Jones | 727 c1617 (Link to this contribution) For the record, would my noble friend confirm that the phrase we have just heard was not uttered by ...
Lord Waddington | 727 c1617-8 (Link to this contribution) I hear what my noble friend says. I have not the faintest idea whether it was uttered or not. By the...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1618-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am a signatory to this amendment and, of course, support it. The noble Lord, Lord Willou...
Lord Flight | 727 c1619 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is very tempting to support the amendment, and the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon...
Lord Empey | 727 c1619-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, many people would be sympathetic to the amendment. There was, however, a difference betwee...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1620 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not going to speak for very long on the amendment, which is in my name as well, unti...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 727 c1616 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I suggested that it was somebody else’s problem. This deals particularly with this co...
Lord Waddington | 727 c1616-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, few things have done more harm to the reputation of the European Union than the telling of...
Lord Liddle | 727 c1617 (Link to this contribution) If the Conservative Party had such objections to the Maastricht treaty, why did the Prime Minister o...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1608 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, those of us who have been around the European communities are familiar with all the proble...
Lord Liddle | 727 c1608 (Link to this contribution) Whatever the specifics of the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bowness, does it not illustrate t...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1607 (Link to this contribution) I have nothing to say except to point to the words ““or otherwise support””. I will say no more than...
Lord Bowness | 727 c1607-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should hate to delay the Committee, bearing in mind that this clause stand part debate h...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1605-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I will. I want now to turn to the next point that the noble Lord raised, which is to...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1606-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord warmly for his reply, particularly for what he said about looking again at th...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 727 c1605 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure I agree with the picture of decisions having to be taken instantly. On the contrary, i...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1605 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister ensure that all Members of the Committee who have taken part in our debates so far...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1608-9 (Link to this contribution) Did I understand the noble Lord correctly when he said that the proposal is that the Official Journa...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1608 (Link to this contribution) Of course we will reflect on that, but I remind noble Lords that the purpose of this Act is to impro...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1610-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have just spent the weekend in a part of France, the Dordogne, where English seemed to b...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1611 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the Minister clarify something? I think he said that the Government are opting into s...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 727 c1611 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord reads all the reports that come from the parliamentary scrut...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1611-2 (Link to this contribution) This is getting hackneyed, but the magic words are there in the first line of the clause and in subs...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 727 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Clause 9(4), second line: ““or otherwise support””.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 727 c1609-10 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the question of whether this clause should stand part of the Bill gives us an opportunity ...
Lord Triesman | 727 c1610 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall not repeat the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, because it would have gone by ...
Lord Bowness | 727 c1609 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not wish to take up the time of the Committee. The proposal as I understand it is to ...
Lord Bowness | 727 c1612 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take this opportunity to support the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard....
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 727 c1598 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, and the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, have clearly explained t...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 727 c1657 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord will allow me to intervene. I ought to have been more courteous in my portray...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 727 c1621 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord give way? If he is quite comfortable about people voting in a referendum, saying...
Lord Waddington | 727 c1617 (Link to this contribution) I was referring to the opt-out and am describing what happened subsequently. I am not here to defend...
Lord Liddle | 727 c1670-1 (Link to this contribution) I will say something on this, prompted by the Minister’s speech, just to oppose that Clause 18 shoul...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 727 c1615 (Link to this contribution) I remind the noble Lord that every French voter received a copy of the Lisbon treaty, so they were p...

Subjects

Crime
Administration of justice
EU law
Electoral Commission
Legislation
European communities
EU justice and home affairs
Powers
Newspaper press
Referendums
Parliamentary scrutiny
Sovereignty
Treaties
Reform
Treaty on European Union
UK membership of EU
Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union
Treaty of Lisbon

Legislation

European Communities Act 1972
European Union Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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