UK Parliament / Open data

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Monday, 25 October 2010, in the House of Commons.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Committee stage fifth day. New clauses 7, 19, 20 debated and added to the Bill. New schedules 2-5 read the first and second time and added to the Bill. Bill as amended reported. Bill to be considered tomorrow.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

517 c27-136 

Session

2010-12

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses
New schedules

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 63-EN).
Thursday, 22 July 2010
Bills
House of Commons
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Political and Constitutional Reform Select Committee third report in 2 volumes with formal minutes, evidence and appendices.
Monday, 11 October 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
The coalition Government's programme of political and constitutional reform. Evidence 15 July 2010.
Thursday, 15 July 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Mark Tami | 517 c54 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister not agree that Scotland in particular has experience of holding polls on the same...
Mark Harper | 517 c54 (Link to this contribution) It certainly does have that experience, which is why we looked closely at the conclusions in the Gou...

Show all contributions (359)
Chris Bryant | 517 c54 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, I do not want the Minister to write to me, I want him to consult the respective Execut...
Mark Harper | 517 c54 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that he wanted to ensure that these issues had been discussed, and they have...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister find it a bit rich—I know I do—that Labour Members, particularly those who are sti...
Mark Harper | 517 c54 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I will not add to his point, but I am now slightly envious...
Mark Tami | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not recognise that candidates standing in the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliame...
Jim McGovern | 517 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the Minister that I am not going to rant and rave like the hon. Member for Na h-Eileana...
Mark Harper | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) No, we have added one extra vote to what would otherwise have taken place, and it will have a simple...
Mark Harper | 517 c55-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman would have a stronger point if we were talking about another set of elections wit...
Mark Harper | 517 c56 (Link to this contribution) I will take one more intervention and then finish, because I am almost there. Hon. Members can then ...
Michael McCann | 517 c56 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Parliamentary Secretary for giving way again. Does not he accept that in S...
Mark Harper | 517 c56 (Link to this contribution) No, because no new electoral systems will be invented next year. People will vote in the Scottish Pa...
Mark Harper | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think there is, actually. People are perfectly capable of laying out the prospectus on ...
Mark Harper | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) Not at all. Many voters give much thought to whom they will support in different elections. There ar...
Michael McCann | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) Will the Parliamentary Secretary focus on the pertinent point about the 2007 elections in Scotland? ...
Mark Harper | 517 c56 (Link to this contribution) I have dealt with the point that the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr Mc...
Chris Bryant | 517 c58 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving us some of the detail on the amendments, although he has no...
Mark Harper | 517 c57 (Link to this contribution) As I set out earlier in this debate, clearly it would not have been sensible for us to table changes...
Chris Bryant | 517 c57 (Link to this contribution) However, neither the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments nor the Merits of Statutory Instrument...
Mark Harper | 517 c57 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is going to find whatever convoluted way he can to try to pretend tha...
Mark Harper | 517 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) It is correct that that legislation will not have been carried by the House, but it will be availabl...
Chris Bryant | 517 c57 (Link to this contribution) It does not need to be convoluted; it is pretty straightforward. I presume that the Minister will ag...
Mark Harper | 517 c56 (Link to this contribution) The territorial orders have been laid before the House, and are therefore available to Members. They...
Chris Bryant | 517 c59 (Link to this contribution) I will of course give way to my other neighbourly Friend.
Chris Bryant | 517 c59 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with my hon. Friend if he is suggesting that the Committee's report is a disgrace, be...
Owen Smith | 517 c59 (Link to this contribution) May I draw my hon. Friend's attention to the report from the Welsh Affairs Committee that came out t...
Chris Bryant | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) Of course I understand the legal position. Local elections may or may not be happening at the same t...
Mark Harper | 517 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) As I have said in response to interventions from other Members, the devolved Administrations—and eve...
Chris Bryant | 517 c60 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and I not think anybody could call the Committee's Chair a patsy. He is a man of fierce indepen...
Wayne David | 517 c60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has many neighbourly friends. He puts his finger on a crucial point about the speed w...
Chris Ruane | 517 c58 (Link to this contribution) Why does my hon. Friend think there has been such undue haste in rushing the Bill, or Bills, through...
Chris Bryant | 517 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) This is entirely speculative, but it might be something to do with the Bill acting as the Araldite t...
Cathy Jamieson | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) Was it not worrying to hear the Minister say that even if the Scottish Parliament passed a resolutio...
Chris Bryant | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) The Government came to power arguing that coalition politics were somehow better for Britain. Whatev...
Chris Ruane | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) Scottish female or Scottish male?
Chris Bryant | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to Scotland, and then to Wales.
Mark Tami | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) The point, surely, is not who has the legal responsibility, but who has the experience. There should...
Chris Bryant | 517 c61 (Link to this contribution) Obviously that is the case. I should have thought that, given that none of the Ministers in either o...
Chris Bryant | 517 c63 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with my hon. Friend, and I hope that one day he will have more friends in neighbo...
Jim McGovern | 517 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. He mentioned that some of his constituency neighbours are als...
Chris Bryant | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, I think that they are behaving more like satraps. I think it extraordinary that there...
Chris Ruane | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) This is my intervention, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind! Are not the Secretaries of State for ...
Mark Tami | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) What about the respect agenda?
Chris Bryant | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to a Welsh man, and then to a Scottish man.
Chris Ruane | 517 c62 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the way in which the current Administration have dealt with the devol...
Chris Bryant | 517 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) He has now made it clear, and we are deeply grateful to him, that these instruments will be dealt wi...
Angela C Smith | 517 c65 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an excellent case about the lack of proper consultation and process on thes...
Chris Bryant | 517 c65 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One sadness about the way in which the business ends up having t...
Ian Lucas | 517 c65 (Link to this contribution) One particular aspect of the franchise relating to the alternative vote referendum and the Welsh Ass...
Chris Bryant | 517 c63 (Link to this contribution) I give way to an English woman.
Chris Bryant | 517 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and I will come on to some of the specific problems that could arise. My hon. Friend did not...
Angela C Smith | 517 c63 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way to an English woman on this point. Does he agree that in this ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c64 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The proper process for a statutory instrument is that, first, co...
Mark Tami | 517 c64 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend finished on the point that I was going to make. Does he agree that the Government are...
Chris Bryant | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Unfortunately, this is one issue on which, notwithstanding the c...
Chris Bryant | 517 c67 (Link to this contribution) For the most part, we agree that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The right hon....
Wayne David | 517 c67 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the exchange that has just taken place underlines the fact that not e...
Mark Tami | 517 c66 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend envisage people turning up expecting to be able to vote, because they can vote i...
Chris Bryant | 517 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) It is neither A nor B—in fact, it is C. It is a new creation. The franchise for the AV referendum wi...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c67 (Link to this contribution) Let me endorse the point made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) and make it clear that we h...
Chris Bryant | 517 c67 (Link to this contribution) The difficulty that we have as Her Majesty's loyal Opposition is that if I had tabled an amendment t...
Mark Durkan | 517 c67 (Link to this contribution) A few minutes ago, my hon. Friend was very critical of the Government's lack of consultation with th...
Chris Bryant | 517 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. There is a series of complications that I shall come on to, if my hon. Friend will bear with...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c69 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend missed something from his list—the possibility of a council tax referendum. The Gover...
Chris Bryant | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend, who probably does not agree with my last sentence.
Chris Bryant | 517 c69 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is almost getting into Rhondda territory. I think there is only one parliamentary con...
Lord Mann | 517 c69 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with my hon. Friend's use of the adjective ““ill-advised””. A more appropriate descri...
Chris Bryant | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) Again, I agree with my hon. Friend: the Bill was in nobody's manifesto and that is why it seems like...
Chris Bryant | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) If we are talking about this legislation, then, yes, probably. The hon. Gentleman makes a serious po...
Roger Williams | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it would have been difficult to have pre-legislative scrutiny of ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) That makes sense. If we had had enough time to go through this process at a slightly more leisurely ...
Tom Harris | 517 c73 (Link to this contribution) I seek to be helpful. Will my hon. Friend explain why it is so important that someone who receives a...
Cathy Jamieson | 517 c72 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. Will he invite the Minister to ensure that the colour select...
Chris Bryant | 517 c72 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Indeed, I was recently subjected to the complexity into which returning off...
Lord Mann | 517 c71 (Link to this contribution) I accept my hon. Friend's point that cost is not everything, but that is not what we have heard from...
Chris Bryant | 517 c71 (Link to this contribution) Undoubtedly so, and that is one reason for my proposal. However, we sometimes overstate our concerns...
Lord Mann | 517 c71 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on his proposed amendments to new schedule 2. I am attempting to follo...
Chris Bryant | 517 c71 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I agree. In addition, someone could have applied for a postal vote for one or other of the elec...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c37-40 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Mark Harper | 517 c37 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c41 (Link to this contribution) It is all dependent on how long this particular set of new clauses and schedules are talked to. Clea...
Chris Bryant | 517 c40 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Evans. This is a large group of amendments, schedules and a new clause; inde...
Mark Harper | 517 c35-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point. In my response to the hon. Member for Rhondda, I set out ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c35 (Link to this contribution) Does this not highlight that when devolution was established by the then Labour Government, they wer...
Mark Harper | 517 c36 (Link to this contribution) I think that in this particular case it does follow. It might not follow if the hon. Gentleman left ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c35 (Link to this contribution) Except that it is not much of a consultation if the Secretary of State for Wales goes to the First M...
Mark Harper | 517 c35 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is characterising that in a sensible fashion. This is a natio...
Mark Harper | 517 c44 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to the order of counting in a while, but we have made it clear in previous debates that...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c44 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify that point? When he says ““verification””, does he mean ““counting””, with...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c44 (Link to this contribution) On the use of separate ballot boxes, if a voter happens to put both papers in one or other of the ba...
Mark Harper | 517 c41-4 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and indeed we did listen to the hon. Gentleman at length—I am just not sure that what he sa...
Mark Harper | 517 c41 (Link to this contribution) Oh come on, that was a semi-serious comment and it does not require a response. [Interruption.] Oh g...
Mark Harper | 517 c41 (Link to this contribution) Encouragingly, the hon. Member for Rhondda took rather less time speaking to the previous new clause...
Chris Bryant | 517 c28-9 (Link to this contribution) I warmly welcome the fact that the Government have tabled the new clause. Broadly speaking, the Mini...
Mark Harper | 517 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. It is a great pleasure to see you in the Chai...
Mark Field | 517 c29 (Link to this contribution) That may have had something to do with Christmas and a monthly publication potentially covering five...
Chris Bryant | 517 c29-30 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, S4C, not Channel 4. S4C is going to be part of the BBC in the near future. I presume that sub...
Chris Bryant | 517 c30-1 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Many of the provisions that we will talk about in the main debate this afternoon relate to t...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c30 (Link to this contribution) A party might indeed consider doing that, but would the hon. Gentleman concede that the political re...
Chris Bryant | 517 c33 (Link to this contribution) I understand that. My point is that I am not sure that there is a definition in law of ““newspaper o...
Mark Harper | 517 c33 (Link to this contribution) We have simply replicated the provision in the PPRA. I do not have it in front of me, but I should b...
Mark Harper | 517 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and to my hon. Friend the Member for Cit...
Chris Bryant | 517 c34-5 (Link to this contribution) So there has been absolutely no consultation with the Administrations in Scotland, Wales or Northern...
Mark Harper | 517 c34 (Link to this contribution) I have not yet dealt with the hon. Gentleman's point about party election broadcasts and referendum ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c34 (Link to this contribution) I thought that there would only be more referendums on European matters if treaties were proposed th...
Mark Harper | 517 c33-4 (Link to this contribution) As I think I made clear in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminste...
Mark Field | 517 c32 (Link to this contribution) I agree with what the Government are trying to do in new clause 19; they have taken on board some of...
Louise Mensch | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that there is deliberate obfuscation going on, given that some citizens el...
Mark Harper | 517 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is spot-on. To be frank, I think that voters are perfectly capable of working out wha...
Chris Bryant | 517 c50 (Link to this contribution) But why? Why should there be variations in postal vote practices around the country for a UK-wide re...
Mark Harper | 517 c50 (Link to this contribution) It is because we are combining it with elections that are different in different parts of the UK. Pi...
Chris Ruane | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. Right, here we go: what would happen in Wales if an elector wer...
Mark Harper | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) I think my answer stills stands.
Chris Ruane | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) I left out town council elections.
Mark Harper | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) If resignations were based on that level of accuracy, there would not have been any members of the p...
Mark Harper | 517 c51 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I follow the right hon. Gentleman. Clearly, there will be some differences. One d...
George Howarth | 517 c51 (Link to this contribution) Given the procedure that the Minister has just described, can he assure me that under the orders to ...
Mark Harper | 517 c51 (Link to this contribution) No. The conduct of elections is currently the responsibility of the territorial Secretaries of State...
Pete Wishart | 517 c51 (Link to this contribution) Is it fair to characterise the Minister's response as ““No consultation with the Scottish Parliament...
Mark Harper | 517 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman was here when we had a slight rehearsal of this discussion ...
Pete Wishart | 517 c50 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister detail to the Committee what discussions and consultation he has held with the Sco...
Mark Harper | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to anticipate the debate that we will have on the proposals of the hon. Member for Rho...
Michael McCann | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), the Minister specifically...
Mark Harper | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that if people are entitled to, or have applied for, a postal vote for a parliam...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) Of course, in England on 5 May, we will have not parliamentary elections, but local elections. What ...
Mark Harper | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, we do not need to have a parliamentary election—registration for a permanent postal vote fo...
Tom Harris | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister clarify the situation for next May? Is it conceivable that large numbers of voters ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c46 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for going through in some detail the large number of pages containing ...
Mark Harper | 517 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes. The verification of both the referendum and election ballot papers will take place first; it wi...
Mark Tami | 517 c47 (Link to this contribution) Before we move off the subject, a person applying for a postal ballot might automatically assume tha...
Mark Harper | 517 c46 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We are confident that the provisions will work appropri...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) Well, because they are not registered for a parliamentary ballot. The reason for making those equiva...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish responding to the intervention before I take another one. It is important that people ...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) My concern is the opposite to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Mr Harris). Plent...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) Plus peers; and it seems that using those who have asked for a postal vote for that type of election...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) If we were not having a referendum and were having only local council elections in England—I shall r...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I am not sure that voting in the referendum by post w...
Tom Harris | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) There is a corollary to what the Minister says, then. If people are registered to vote by post for a...
Mark Harper | 517 c48 (Link to this contribution) Let me take the intervention from the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Mr Harris), as I am responding ...
Mark Harper | 517 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will come to him when I have completed this point. We reco...
Mark Harper | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should know that those processes have been used. The matter has been raised at th...
Mark Harper | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) Hang on: let me deal with one intervention at a time. My understanding—I am sure that this is the c...
Mark Harper | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) Let me take the hon. Member for Rhondda first.
Chris Bryant | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) It seems extraordinary that the Government are taking this attitude in relation to consulting the de...
Cathy Jamieson | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister said that the Scottish Parliament and the other devolved Assemblies had no...
Margaret Curran | 517 c52 (Link to this contribution) This is not a nationalist point, and I hope that the coalition do not dismiss the feelings to which ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c52 (Link to this contribution) Order. This intervention is longer than some of the speeches that I have made in this House—
Margaret Curran | 517 c52 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may not be aware, but I am still a Member of the Scottish Parliament, and I feel oblige...
George Howarth | 517 c51 (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but I had in mind the question: is there any way in which the qualification for t...
Mark Harper | 517 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) No. The franchise—those who can take part in the referendum on the voting system—are those people en...
Mark Harper | 517 c52 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Evans: I had got the hon. Lady's point. I am not trying to minimise her concern, b...
Mark Field | 517 c118 (Link to this contribution) Everybody accepts that collective responsibility is an important function, particularly in this medi...
Chris Bryant | 517 c118 (Link to this contribution) I agree. That is why I have been trying to argue that Members such as the hon. Gentleman who have ta...
Chris Bryant | 517 c117-8 (Link to this contribution) I think I agree with the hon. Gentleman. In the previous Government we were not always as alive as w...
Chris Bryant | 517 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) Right, but he is not yet listed on any publicly available list of PPSs. [Interruption.] Well, I am s...
Daniel Kawczynski | 517 c118 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that having a large group of PPSs will make it more difficult to hold the Go...
Chris Bryant | 517 c118 (Link to this contribution) I know too much about that episode to want to divulge exactly what went on. The hon. Gentleman is a ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c120 (Link to this contribution) Certainly not ““I am just a poor boy””!
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park | 517 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak very briefly in favour of the new clause. There is a long history in this House of M...
Mark Durkan | 517 c120 (Link to this contribution) I support the new clause, to which my name, along with those of so many others from different partie...
Mark Durkan | 517 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) I said, not for any of the words of the verses, but for the chorus. That alone would make a good the...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c121-3 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) on the spirited ...
Christopher Chope | 517 c123 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the irony that his Committee is carrying out this inquiry, but the Govern...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c123-4 (Link to this contribution) I can put them right. As Chairman of that Committee, although I do not act as Chairman in this capac...
David Heath | 517 c124 (Link to this contribution) I think this has been an interesting and illuminating debate. I am grateful to the hon. Member for B...
Chris Bryant | 517 c124 (Link to this contribution) The information is not available.
David Heath | 517 c124 (Link to this contribution) It is available, and the hon. Gentleman will be able to find it if he cares to look at the Governmen...
Chris Bryant | 517 c124 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but no list of parliamentary private secretaries is currently available on a website or ...
David Heath | 517 c124 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman looks at the departmental websites, he will find that the PPSs are clearly lis...
Lee Scott | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend looks at not just individual websites for Members of Parliament but the parliament...
Philip Davies | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) I do not quite follow the hon. Gentleman's argument. Is he saying that the new clause means that any...
David Heath | 517 c125-6 (Link to this contribution) I am not suggesting that that would be the case. I am picking up on points made during the debate, w...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman seriously saying that there is something unconstitutional about having a Secre...
David Heath | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) I said that it was undesirable, and I believe that it is undesirable. I said that in the last Parlia...
David Heath | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) First, however, I will give way to the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex.
Charles Walker | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) I do not like the idea of lots of Ministers being in the House of Lords, but the fact is that there ...
David Heath | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) I will let the hon. Gentleman into a secret: I am not the Prime Minister. It is the Prime Minister w...
Mark Field | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Leader of the House has made it clear that he wishes to respond to the contributions made...
David Heath | 517 c125 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for putting the Committee straight on that. The hon. Member for...
David Heath | 517 c126-7 (Link to this contribution) No, not for the moment because I have just said that I want to set out some of the reasons I have di...
David Heath | 517 c127 (Link to this contribution) But it was suggested in the speech moving the new clause. The hon. Member for Broxbourne seemed to g...
Lord Beamish | 517 c127 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting, therefore, that the Prime Minister of a future Labour or Conservat...
David Heath | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) If the intervention is on that point I have to say that it is not germane to the new clause, but if ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) Whether or not it is germane is obviously for the Chair, not the hon. Gentleman, to decide, but I am...
David Heath | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) Well, perhaps the hon. Gentleman needs to look a little more carefully. May I now move on to the pr...
Chris Leslie | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Chris Bryant | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Heath | 517 c126 (Link to this contribution) That is a Second Reading point, but it is not a point that I agree with or accept in any way. We hav...
Chris Bryant | 517 c114 (Link to this contribution) Well, the hon. Gentleman should be. He carries himself as if he were right honourable—if not most re...
Chris Bryant | 517 c114 (Link to this contribution) Of course; I did not mean to be ungenerous to the hon. Member for Broxbourne, as I think he well kno...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c114 (Link to this contribution) May I charitably suggest that although the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) might lack persona...
Chris Bryant | 517 c114 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on her splendid speech. I had not realised that she was going to end s...
Fiona Mactaggart | 517 c113-4 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak in the debate, although I support the proposal in the new clause. I am q...
Peter Tapsell | 517 c111-3 (Link to this contribution) Curiously enough, I shall come to the question of the Irish Republic a little later in my remarks, i...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c111 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman feel that the Irish Republic would be better off as part of the UK, or has t...
Peter Tapsell | 517 c111 (Link to this contribution) It is very interesting—even if incomprehensible to me. I make the point in passing that Scotland has...
Chris Bryant | 517 c116 (Link to this contribution) That is right. If we really are to have new politics—that rather amorphous term to which the coaliti...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 517 c117 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that the hon. Gentleman is trying to have it both ways. He is arguing that people who...
Chris Bryant | 517 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) Ah! Parliamentary Private Secretaries. Indeed, I was going to come to the point about PPSs, because ...
David Hamilton | 517 c116 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) spoke to his new clause, he made the very good point...
Chris Bryant | 517 c115 (Link to this contribution) Yes, he delivered his remarks with a magisterial largesse—[Interruption.] No, I was not going to say...
Philip Davies | 517 c127 (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems to be saying that these things should be judged on the ministerial work load, as ...
David Heath | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) Without rehearsing arguments from other parts of the Bill—we must not do that—I can say that the int...
David Heath | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not. I am suggesting that a slightly more complicated relationship is involved than perhaps...
Charles Walker | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Leader of the House questioned whether it is wise to put an arithmetical limit on the num...
Mark Durkan | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) May I take up the point that the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) raised about the Deputy Lead...
David Heath | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) I am not making terribly much progress, but I shall give way to the hon. Member for Foyle.
Daniel Kawczynski | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend made a very important point a few moments ago about the staggering number of special ...
David Heath | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) Again, the hon. Gentleman seeks to draw me back to debates that we have had on other parts of the Bi...
David Heath | 517 c128 (Link to this contribution) Well, the hon. Gentleman must not tempt me into spelling out in graphic detail the degree to which w...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's honesty is touching. Will he explain very simply why 95 is the correct number?
David Heath | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) I think it very well might not be; it is likely that at some stage in the future we will reduce the ...
Christopher Chope | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) Before the Deputy Leader of the House gets carried away by what my hon. Friend the Member for Shrews...
David Heath | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will have to put that question to the Prime Minister.
Charles Walker | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) To which hon. Gentleman was he referring?
David Heath | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) No. Let me go on to the next point, which is the timing of what is being suggested. This is not the...
Lord Beamish | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) Will the Deputy Leader of the House give way?
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) Order. We cannot have two people on their feet at the same time. The Deputy Leader of the House shou...
David Heath | 517 c129-30 (Link to this contribution) I apologise; I thought that the hon. Gentleman was. I apologise to him and to the House. I hope that...
Lord Brady of Altrincham | 517 c130 (Link to this contribution) Surely new clause 7 would also come into effect in four and a half years, at exactly the same time a...
David Heath | 517 c130-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it would, but my point is that new clause 7 does not perfectly encapsulate the purpose that the...
Charles Walker | 517 c132 (Link to this contribution) I say to new colleagues who were not here in 2009 that it was the most awful experience. We were led...
Charles Walker | 517 c129 (Link to this contribution) I should like to point out to the Deputy Leader of the House that I am not a member of the Backbench...
Chris Bryant | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) Well, the hon. Gentleman did not make that point earlier, but if he now agrees with the Government t...
Chris Bryant | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) No. In relation to some of the measures, we think it important to look at whether there should be un...
Jake Berry | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) My point is that I do agree with the Government. The returning officer should have the right to make...
Chris Bryant | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) I think my hon. Friend misunderstands the situation. The Government want a single register with the ...
Jake Berry | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) I should be interested to know how many elections the hon. Gentleman has run, or how many returning ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) It depends which kind of Liberal Democrat it is. If they are from one side of the street, they will ...
Lord Mann | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) I remain mystified, because my hon. Friend is now saying that there is an issue with the marked regi...
Chris Bryant | 517 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) No, what should be happening is this: a voter eligible for one election presents themselves at a pol...
Roger Williams | 517 c78 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that in the vicinity of the polling station there might be a helpful L...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 517 c80 (Link to this contribution) I may have missed this point earlier, but will the referendum votes be counted by ward and then by e...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c80 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend made a very good point about basing the referendum count on parliamentary constituenc...
Chris Bryant | 517 c80 (Link to this contribution) Yes—[Interruption.] The Deputy Leader of the House says that he has that all the time. He obviously ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c80 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman agrees. The point is that our amendment is so drafted because, otherwise, a Memb...
Chris Bryant | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite so negative as my hon. Friend about returning officers, but the hon. Member for Eppin...
Mark Harper | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was gesturing.
Chris Bryant | 517 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I was gesturing to the hon. Lady as if she were there, because in spirit she is sitting just ov...
Chris Bryant | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry) has obviously become ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c75 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 2 relates only to England, and the Post Office does not make such deliveries. Most local au...
Lord Mann | 517 c75 (Link to this contribution) Aside from the problems that would be caused to those, including Members of the House, who are colou...
Chris Bryant | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) If multiple polling cards go to each individual elector, in a household where there are five people ...
Mark Durkan | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) Surely if we have separate polling cards for each of the polls taking place, whether those are elect...
Chris Bryant | 517 c73 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. I did not mean to say that there should be a treatise on the polling card a...
Jake Berry | 517 c73 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the clearest thing of all would be a separate polling card for ea...
Chris Bryant | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) It is not those of us on the Opposition Benches who table partisan amendments. Only those on the Gov...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that whether there are combined or separate polling cards, there is a ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand why the hon. Gentleman is supporting the Government's position. The Government s...
Lord Mann | 517 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am following my hon. Friend's logic, though he is beginning to lose me. Surely if there were more ...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) To clarify, on 6 May, we had combined elections in Denton and Reddish, to both Stockport and Tamesid...
Chris Bryant | 517 c77 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend was returned with a decent majority; there cannot have been too much o...
Lord Mann | 517 c77 (Link to this contribution) On this occasion, my hon. Friend has not lost me with his amendment, although I am astonished at whe...
Chris Bryant | 517 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I am making the system more complex. It makes the system more complex if there is jus...
Gordon Birtwistle | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) I dread dragging the debate on any longer than is necessary, but in Burnley at the election in May w...
Chris Bryant | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) I just think it is simpler to be able to separate them before starting. Of course, if somebody puts ...
Mark Williams | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that the system used in Wales for the National Assembly elections need...
Chris Bryant | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) We will come later to the question of which ballots is counted first. The Minister has said that he ...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) May I advise my hon. Friend that the experience in Denton and Reddish on 6 May this year was quite d...
Chris Bryant | 517 c90 (Link to this contribution) I am just asking a simple thing, which is that the Minister should help the Committee. He says that ...
Mark Durkan | 517 c90 (Link to this contribution) The Minister referred to the fact that the provisions on postal votes in Northern Ireland, as provid...
Chris Bryant | 517 c107 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Streeter. As there was some discussion before that last set of votes about t...
Mark Harper | 517 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) This is not a secret: I set out what we were going to do in the letter that I sent to all hon. Membe...
Chris Bryant | 517 c107 (Link to this contribution) I apologise and am very grateful to the Whip for that. These statutory instruments are now availabl...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I am sure that his comments have be...
Fiona Mactaggart | 517 c107 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Streeter. I have participated in many of the debates on this Bill, but it ha...
Sammy Wilson | 517 c108 (Link to this contribution) Might there not be even more Back Benchers interested in increasing the number from 95 to about 195?...
Charles Walker | 517 c108 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 7 would amend the House of Commons...
Fiona Mactaggart | 517 c108 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman spoken more recently to the Deputy Prime Minister, because it is my impressio...
Charles Walker | 517 c108 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his usual sparky intervention. Rafts of leading academics and political co...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 517 c111 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that in 1900 the UK was the richest nation in the world. Today, in The Scots...
Charles Walker | 517 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to correct me. It is the ministerial code, which is similar to th...
Peter Tapsell | 517 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak in support of new clause 7, which was so ably introduced by my hon. Friend the Membe...
Angela C Smith | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) However much time the Government give the Bill on the Floor of the House, it will not make up for th...
Mark Harper | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) dealt with that point very wel...
Angela C Smith | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) With respect, is not a Bill relating to constitutional reform of such significance that the Governme...
Mark Harper | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) All that I can say is that we can examine the comparative records. In the last Session under the Lab...
Mark Harper | 517 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) I have said both today and on earlier days that notwithstanding the short time available to it, the ...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c86 (Link to this contribution) On pre-legislative scrutiny, if we are going back to 2001, I will mention that the first Bill that I...
Mark Harper | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) I will not, but I will of course correctly assign the comment to the hon. Member for Rhondda. It per...
Mark Tami | 517 c85 (Link to this contribution) It was actually my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) who said that, not me. As I ask...
Mark Harper | 517 c86 (Link to this contribution) No, not at all, because the local elections were also held in June, because of the foot and mouth ou...
Chris Bryant | 517 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) I think I am right in saying that the hon. Gentleman has just said that the 2001 general election wa...
Mark Harper | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) My information was that we had laid the three territorial orders in the Table Office. I think that t...
Kevin Brennan | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) Do I take it from the Parliamentary Secretary's comments about attending the count on a Monday that ...
Mark Harper | 517 c87-9 (Link to this contribution) No, but we had a debate about whether the referendum should take place next May. If it does, it will...
Chris Bryant | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) I seek clarification from the Parliamentary Secretary. He said that the three territorial authoritie...
Chris Bryant | 517 c87 (Link to this contribution) I understand the thrust of the Parliamentary Secretary's remarks, but I am not sure that he is right...
Mark Harper | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that. I assume that most Members will have duties in the House and in other places. If...
Chris Bryant | 517 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) No, they will not be counted by local authority ward. The procedure is different in England, Wales, ...
Tom Harris | 517 c82 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend received any information from the Government about the decision by the Scottish P...
Alan Reid | 517 c82 (Link to this contribution) As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, the difference is that the Scottish council elections are ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c82 (Link to this contribution) I presume that they must, because that is why we are now going to have all three of these things on ...
Mark Harper | 517 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) First, I will pick up several issues raised by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and other ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c82 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a Liberal Democrat, and I am sure that he knows all about confusion, especiall...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 517 c83 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that he is going to recommend to his hon. Friends that they vote against all the a...
Lord Mann | 517 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister daring to come to this House and suggest that failing to put this Bill into a proper...
Tom Harris | 517 c83 (Link to this contribution) When the Opposition expressed reservations about the rapidity with which the Government are pushing ...
Lord Mann | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for generously giving way again in the limited time available today. Does he no...
Lord Mann | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) But Members such as myself have tabled amendments, and because there has not been enough time they h...
Mark Harper | 517 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) I can see why my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) was confused and tried to in...
Lord Mann | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) Why do the Minister and his mate from the Liberals—the Deputy Prime Minister, who cannot even turn u...
Richard Graham | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Harper | 517 c53 (Link to this contribution) No, I was not suggesting that at all; I was simply making the point that they have not done so. Howe...
Chris Bryant | 517 c55 (Link to this contribution) The Parliamentary Secretary knows that the system that evolved in the United States because they hav...
Chris Bryant | 517 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows more about local elections in England than I do, so he will correct me if I am ...
Mark Harper | 517 c44 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, as is common with combined polls, the verification procedure, which I shall discuss later, ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c41 (Link to this contribution) It will get a semi-serious response; I do not want the hon. Gentleman to worry about this. I merely ...
Chris Bryant | 517 c33 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is talking complete sense, but I should like to be absolutely certain about what consti...
Mark Harper | 517 c35 (Link to this contribution) No, that is not what I said. The hon. Gentleman asked about what correspondence I had had on adminis...
Mark Harper | 517 c49 (Link to this contribution) If such a voter had elected to register for a permanent postal vote for every possible election exce...
Chris Bryant | 517 c115-6 (Link to this contribution) Well, my point remains. Neither in 1815 nor in 1850 were miners able to vote, because they did not q...
David Heath | 517 c127 (Link to this contribution) As I shall go on to describe, what the previous Government did when they reached the buffers of the ...
Tom Harris | 517 c79 (Link to this contribution) I rise only to remind the Committee and particularly the hon. Member for Damascus about our argument...
Chris Bryant | 517 c76 (Link to this contribution) I have seen the same myself in by-elections in Hackney and council elections elsewhere. That can hap...
Mark Harper | 517 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) I said that the Government would table the territorial orders today, because it is in relation to th...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 517 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady. That is not a point of order for the Chair, but I am sure that she i...
Charles Walker | 517 c108-9 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Prime Minister is a man of great integrity. I recognise that this is his Bill, and once h...
Chris Bryant | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may be right that somebody has given the statutory instruments to the Table Office, but...
Mark Harper | 517 c89 (Link to this contribution) I am faced by a galaxy of choices. Let me give way to the shadow Minister first and then to the hon....
Chris Bryant | 517 c81 (Link to this contribution) In Dudley, which is not a separate nation yet, the procedure will be based on local authority bounda...
Mark Harper | 517 c83 (Link to this contribution) I have said that I am going to explain why hon. Members should vote against the amendments; I think ...
Mark Harper | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) That might be credible if I did not remember all the programme motions that the hon. Gentleman voted...
Ian Lucas | 517 c68 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Does he agree that the consultation is even more important ...
Andrew Gwynne | 517 c71 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, a not insubstantial number of people are registered for a postal vote only for l...
Chris Bryant | 517 c72 (Link to this contribution) No. He is just going to continue chuntering. Fine. My point is that quite often, voters must go thr...
Chris Bryant | 517 c29 (Link to this contribution) It seems slightly odd to go to 36 days because there is no specific definition of the date of public...
Mark Harper | 517 c90 (Link to this contribution) As with his lengthy speech, the hon. Gentleman is just going around creating confusion where there i...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c109 (Link to this contribution) I am mystified as to what the role of a PPS has to do with the civil service code.
Mark Harper | 517 c83 (Link to this contribution) We had a debate on this earlier, but I do not think that the hon. Gentleman was in his place at the ...
Mark Harper | 517 c84 (Link to this contribution) By having a Committee of the Whole House, we have enabled every Member to be here. I have been here ...

Subjects

Alternative vote
Administration
Absent voting
Costs
Elections
General elections
Local government
Northern Ireland
Pay
Northern Ireland Assembly
Members
National Assembly for Wales
Newspaper press
Referendums
Staff
Ministers
Peers
Scotland
Voting methods
Wales
Scottish Parliament
Parliamentary private secretaries

Legislation

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12
House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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