Planning Bill. Lords Committee stage sixth day. Clauses 200 to 210, 212 to 227 agreed to, with clauses 200, 201, 204 to 206, 212, 214, 217, 220, 225, and 226 agreed to as amended. Clause 211 negatived. Schedules 12 and 13 agreed to as amended. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 84).
Planning Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Thursday, 23 October 2008,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
704 c1275-346Session
2007-08Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Planning Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 69-EN also published.
Thursday, 26 June 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 26 June 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1333-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 442C:
442C: After Clause 204, insert the following new Clause—
““Compensation
...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1332 (Link to this contribution)
In case the fifth cavalry can come to the aid of the Minister, perhaps I may intervene. I listened w...
Show all contributions (109)
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c1332-3 (Link to this contribution)
To address the issue raised by the noble Baroness, we will consider it and will write in some detail...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1327-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Amendment No. 438T is in this group. It removes the definition of infrastructure. That might seem...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c1328 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak to Amendment No. 439 on behalf of my noble friend Lord Berkeley who has had to go to...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 443ZA:
443ZA: Clause 206, page 129, line 10, leave out subsections (1) to (4)
...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1337-8 (Link to this contribution)
I have put it as an observation. On Amendment No. 460 to Clause 226, which is the commencement claus...
Lord Reay | 704 c1334-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 443:
443: Clause 205, page 129, line 3, at end insert—
““( ) CIL regulations s...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1334 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 442D:
442D: Clause 205, page 128, line 26, at end insert—
““( ) procedures to ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1312-3 (Link to this contribution)
I take the points raised by both noble Lords.
I turn now to the question of which types of develope...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1313-4 (Link to this contribution)
I take that point, but we have to be clear that any exemptions from CIL need to be decided on the ba...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1314 (Link to this contribution)
I thought the point the Minister has just raised was the precise justification for keeping Section 1...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1320-1 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness, and noble Lords who have supported my three amendments. I am encouraged ...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
Section 106 arrangements depend on the agreement between the developer and the authority. The first ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 438C:
438C: Clause 201, page 124, line 32, leave out subsections (1) and (2) a...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 438D and 438E:
438D: Clause 201, page 124, leave out lines 41 and 42 and ins...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c1324-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 438R:
438R: Clause 202, page 125, line 44, at beginning insert ““Subject to se...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 437B:
437B: Clause 200, page 124, line 5, leave out ““development (and””
On Q...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1321-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 437C:
437C: Clause 200, page 124, line 24, at end insert—
““(4A) CIL regulatio...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1346 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 458 and 459:
458: Clause 225, page 139, line 29, at end insert—
““( ) Sectio...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1346 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 457:
457: Schedule 13, page 189, leave out line 36
On Question, amendment agr...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
Lest it be thought that no one on this side shares the views of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, I assoc...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1341 (Link to this contribution)
The amendment was moved in great seriousness and has found support all around the Committee. I will ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1342-3 (Link to this contribution)
That is one of the better speeches I have heard.
The amendment would provide for the repeal of PGS....
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1343 (Link to this contribution)
As I explained—and I cannot explain it much more clearly—it is a small and technical piece of legisl...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1343 (Link to this contribution)
That is a dreadful response, with due respect to the Minister. Can she tell me how much money has be...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1344 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 448:
448: Clause 214, page 133, line 23, leave out ““(subject to subsection (4...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1344 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 445 to 447:
445: Clause 212, page 131, line 14, leave out ““expressions rela...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1343-4 (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 210 agreed to.
Clau...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1345-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 455A and 456:
455A: Schedule 12, page 188, line 9, at end insert—
““ Section...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I moved this amendment some time ago. I can speak only for myself; I thought that I understood some ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 704 c1297-300 (Link to this contribution)
My name is attached to this amendment and to subsequent amendments. I apologise to the Committee for...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1294-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 436BC:
436BC: Clause 200, page 123, line 32, at beginning insert ““Except as p...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
To the best of my knowledge we have not set down any timetables, nor have we anticipated any. We hav...
Baroness Ford | 704 c1293-4 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister write to noble Lords with some idea of how long the consultation process that the ...
Lord Dearing | 704 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
In London there are two charging authorities, the mayor and the borough concerned. There needs to be...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1291-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the musical interlude, which is welcome. To ensure that the draft schedules are re...
Lord Greaves | 704 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister have an estimate of how long it would take an authority from starting the process ...
Lord Berkeley | 704 c1288 (Link to this contribution)
I listened very carefully to the debate and did not want to intervene, but I really must ask the Min...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1285 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister said a moment ago that the Government were going to set up a charging schedule that wou...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1285 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry to interrupt, but I feel that it is necessary. If we are considering charging schedules a...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1283 (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to intervene as I do not have an amendment in this group, but I am prompted to inquire ab...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1307-8 (Link to this contribution)
We are at the core of the problems that CIL throws up. We will have to finish with absolute clarity ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1306-7 (Link to this contribution)
In terms of a local community, a major energy installation could well be regarded as a bad neighbour...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1306 (Link to this contribution)
Bad neighbour projects.
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1306 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked about the regulations provided for in government Amendment No. ...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 704 c1300-1 (Link to this contribution)
I find myself in a similar position to that of the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, in that I was unable to...
Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham | 704 c1301-2 (Link to this contribution)
I declare the interests that are recorded in the House of Lords Register of Interests. I give temper...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 704 c1300 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I am sorry if she is taking my remarks amiss. Of course I am we...
Lord Greaves | 704 c1305-6 (Link to this contribution)
I would like to associate the Liberal Democrats with much of the debate on this group, particularly ...
Lord Best | 704 c1302-4 (Link to this contribution)
I have two amendments in this group, Amendments Nos. 437AA and 444A, which were most helpfully prepa...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c1280-1 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister enlighten me on two or three matters? It is natural to assume that local authoritie...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1279-80 (Link to this contribution)
The one thing on which a large number of people are agreed regarding this part of the Bill is that i...
Baroness Valentine | 704 c1278-9 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to touch on some of the points raised by my noble friend Lord Cameron. I turn to my four amen...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1333 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 442B:
442B: Clause 204, page 128, line 9, at end insert—
““( ) Regulations und...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c1329-32 (Link to this contribution)
I will try to answer all the points that have been raised, although a few amendments have not been f...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1332 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may take the Minister back to a serious point concerning Clause 202(2) and (3). I am incre...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1327 (Link to this contribution)
London councils anticipate that they are going to have to collect CIL for their own purposes and for...
Baroness Valentine | 704 c1328-9 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak to Amendment No. 442ZAA in this group. As we have heard, the purpose of CIL is to co...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
I hear what the noble Baroness says. Having worked hard over the summer to put things on the face of...
Lord Reay | 704 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
I was disappointed with the noble Baroness’s reply to my amendment, as she realised I would be. Howe...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1337 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure there is an answer, and I will write to the noble Baroness. We will untangle all these cla...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1337 (Link to this contribution)
I am disappointed by the Minister’s response to my noble friend Lord Reay. I thought he had an extre...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1335-7 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak, first, to the government amendments in this group. Amendment No. 443ZA has been broug...
Lord Berkeley | 704 c1313 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may help my noble friend. Network Rail is actually two separate companies. One is a regula...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 704 c1318 (Link to this contribution)
I do not wish to trespass, having irritated the noble Baroness earlier this afternoon. In her amendm...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1318-20 (Link to this contribution)
That is true, but I have said that the substantive point is that the Secretary of State is required ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that.
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 438F and 438G:
438F: Clause 201, page 125, line 10, leave out paragraph (e)
...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 438J to 438L:
438J: Clause 201, page 125, line 37, after ““charges,”” insert...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1326-7 (Link to this contribution)
I have a number of amendments in this group. Amendments Nos. 438S and 442ZE tackle a problem, but in...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1322-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 438M to 438Q:
438M: After Clause 201, insert the following new Clause—
““Cha...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 437A:
437A: Clause 200, page 124, line 3, at end insert—
““( ) In this section...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1346 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 460:
460: Clause 226, page 140, line 10, leave out ““(subject to subsection (7...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
I associate these Benches with the comments of the noble Lord; we entirely agree with him. Perhaps I...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1338-40 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 444:
444: Clause 207, page 130, line 2, leave out ““the House of Commons”” and...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
I have put my name to the amendment. I was critical of the Minister at Second Reading and suggested ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1342 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 444C:
444C: After Clause 208, insert the following new Clause—
““Community Inf...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c1341-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am deeply disappointed at the noble Baroness’s view. I had hoped that she might at least take the ...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1342 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 444D:
444D: After Clause 209, insert the following new Clause—
““Planning-gain...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1343 (Link to this contribution)
I am so tempted to call a Division now. I am very frustrated at the close of today’s business. Clear...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1343 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to write to the noble Earl and answer the question about costs. I would not be discourteo...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1344-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 455:
455: Clause 220, page 136, line 41, at end insert—
““““gas transporter”” ...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1344 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 449 to 453:
449: Clause 217, page 135, line 16, leave out ““This section app...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to do that. I can then reflect on some of the other elements that go into making that a c...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister help me? I got a bit lost at the end there, trying to absorb everything she was sa...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
It has to go through the whole process. It would be a serious undertaking to change the level of CIL...
Lord Dearing | 704 c1291 (Link to this contribution)
Some noble Lords will remember a show called ““Oliver!”” in which Fagin says, "““You’ve got to pick-...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1288-90 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that my noble friend was not here for our debate this morning when we said that CIL would...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1285-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry if I misled the noble Lord. I meant to say that the charging schedule will probably be ba...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1285 (Link to this contribution)
I have no quarrel with that; that is a challenge to the process of planning for the long term in rel...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1283-5 (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords have put a number of hurdles in my way. A number of complex issues arise on this group o...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
This is good, heavy pounding, is it not? I have six amendments in the group. The first amendment is ...
Lord Berkeley | 704 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
When the noble Lord talks about a development not requiring planning permission, does he mean that i...
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1308-9 (Link to this contribution)
Yes. Planning is not needed at the moment and one can get on with the development. That is particula...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1309-11 (Link to this contribution)
I have ceased to count the number of questions that I was asked in this debate. I suspect that I wil...
Lord Greaves | 704 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
I understand that. Does the Minister not understand that small and local builders, in particular, fi...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1300 (Link to this contribution)
As the noble Lord is representing the NCVO, which is a hugely reputable national organisation, I pre...
Lord Berkeley | 704 c1304-5 (Link to this contribution)
I shall to speak Amendment No. 438 in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, who has apo...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my noble friend. Her experience is extremely helpful. My concern is that many of th...
Baroness Ford | 704 c1281-2 (Link to this contribution)
I shall try to add to this thoughtful debate about some interesting amendments. I shall touch on the...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c1277-8 (Link to this contribution)
There are some quite serious issues in this group of amendments. I refer to government Amendment No....
Earl of Caithness | 704 c1276-7 (Link to this contribution)
I have four amendments in this group. Amendment No. 436BB is designed so that everyone will know exa...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1275-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 436BA:
436BA: After Clause 199, insert the following new Clause—
““Duty to co-...
Baroness Ford | 704 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my noble friend for that intervention. I was about to touch on that point when I talked abou...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1314-8 (Link to this contribution)
Section 106 certainly is in situ and local authorities can use it, as they do now, for a variety of ...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c1340-1 (Link to this contribution)
Those who have expressed views on the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Jenkin are in complete...
Baroness Andrews | 704 c1290 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry if that sounds patronising: I really do not mean it in that sense. She knows how passiona...
Baroness Hamwee | 704 c1337 (Link to this contribution)
I shall just say a word about two of the government amendments. On Amendment No. 444C—I relate this ...
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