UK Parliament / Open data

Pensions Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 30 June 2008, in the House of Lords.
Pensions Bill. Lords Committee stage third day. Clauses 30-36, 39-41 and 43-44 agreed to as amended. Clauses 37-38, 42 and 45 agreed to. Part 2 of 3 records.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

703 c42-84 

Session

2007-08

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Pensions Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 50-EN also published.
Wednesday, 23 April 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Employment Bill (HL). Brought from the Lords. Explanatory Notes Bill 117-EN also published.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2008-2061
Monday, 21 July 2008
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Pensions Act 2004
Thursday, 18 November 2004
Public acts

Show all related items (5)
Pensions Act 1995
Wednesday, 19 July 1995
Public acts

Proceeding contributions

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c53 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 90T to 90V: 90T: Clause 33, page 15, line 25, leave out ““unpaid relevant co...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c53 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 90R and 90S: 90R: Clause 32, page 15, line 14, at end insert ““or must cease...

Show all contributions (111)
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c54 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness’s amendment seems fair and sensible. We look forward to hearing from the Minister...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 703 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 91: 91: Clause 33, page 15, line 43, at end insert— ““( ) require, in the even...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) I start by thanking my noble friend Lady Turner for tabling this helpful amendment, whose intention ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c52 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 90D to 90N: 90D: Clause 31, page 14, line 17, leave out first ““employer”” a...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) We are getting a little clearer. I can well understand that the trustee, for example, who has given ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90Q: 90Q: Clause 32, page 15, line 11, leave out ““the contravention”” The no...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c52 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90P: 90P: Clause 32, page 15, line 4, leave out ““an employer”” and insert ““a...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c58 (Link to this contribution) My colleagues in another place will be delighted that a clause of this sort is now to be included in...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 91B: 91B: Clause 34, page 16, line 3, after ““of”” insert ““a contravention of...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c57 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has revealed his true clothes. We are back to, ““All employers are potentially evading ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) I can see that those circumstances might arise, and I do not see that they would be precluded. This ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c55 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 91A: 91A: Clause 33, page 15, line 43, at end insert— ““(6) In this section, “...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) It is because the existing powers are needed to deal with the existing business of the Pensions Regu...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c56 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain why the Government are not removing anything from the 1995 Act if they are ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c56 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness. I understand the import of the debate that she wants to have and I shall...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c55 (Link to this contribution) I wish to debate Clauses 33 and 34 standing part in order to ask the Government to explain the relat...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c60 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising the important issue of the policy on restitution. As we ...
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 703 c60 (Link to this contribution) If this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 92A.
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c60 (Link to this contribution) I described it as a probing amendment and it was a real description—noble Lords might think, ““for o...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c59 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful. On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c59 (Link to this contribution) I will reflect further on that point because it is an interesting one. However, if we are talking ab...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92: 92: Clause 34, page 16, line 12, leave out paragraph (c) The noble Lord s...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c59 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 91C to 91E: 91C: Clause 34, page 16, leave out line 8 and insert ““are of a ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c59 (Link to this contribution) Obviously it is the worker’s absolute right to opt out, whether or not an inducement has been offere...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c67 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92H: 92H: Clause 35, page 17, line 22, leave out ““employer”” and insert ““per...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c67 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. Clearly, however, the Bill contains a ratcheting-up of the compliance regime that alr...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to deter the noble Lord from withdrawing his amendment, but it might be helpful if I d...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c66 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that long and fairly explanatory answer. I accept that there are already powers in...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c64-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for this amendment. I understand that it is by way of a p...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c64 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, on his hard work in drafting this, and for the ext...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c61-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92GA: 92GA: Clause 35, page 17, line 7, leave out subsection (4) and insert— “...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c61 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92G: 92G: After Clause 34, insert the following new Clause— ““Meaning of ““rel...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c61 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 92A to 92F: 92A: Clause 34, page 16, line 13, leave out ““due”” and insert “...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c42-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 89B: 89B: After Clause 29, insert the following new Clause— ““Report on auto-e...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c43 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches broadly support the amendment. The noble Lord is certainly right to say that thi...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for this amendment because it gives me an opportunity to clarify an important...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that extra information, but I am afraid that it prompts the same question. I would...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c46 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90: 90: Clause 30, page 14, line 5, leave out subsection (1) The noble Lord s...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c45 (Link to this contribution) I am well aware of the reports that the Government publish around the pensions arena, including thos...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c45 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give a precise answer to that, but I will check. I can see that it may be helpful if it can...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c43-5 (Link to this contribution) The amendment would require the Secretary of State to report annually on the impact of auto-enrolmen...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c47-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90A: 90A: Clause 30, page 14, line 11, leave out subsection (4) The noble Lor...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c49 (Link to this contribution) For once, I am almost speechless. I will have to read carefully what the noble Lord has said when Ha...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c51 (Link to this contribution) I will try. There are two different things here. As I said, although those employer duties will fall...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c51 (Link to this contribution) This looks like another subject for one of the Minister’s famous letters; I am grateful for the four...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c51 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may try to clarify this a little more. I want to differentiate between compliance notices ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90B: 90B: Clause 31, page 14, line 15, leave out ““referred to in this Chapter...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c50 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for explaining these essentially drafting and technical amendments so ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c50 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 90C: 90C: Clause 31, page 14, line 16, leave out ““an employer”” and insert ““...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just exemplified a saying that I first heard on the west coast of Scotland: ““We th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c75 (Link to this contribution) I quoted the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act at the noble Baroness. That was 1974, so it was not ...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c75 (Link to this contribution) I exaggerated for effect. The Minister gave examples, all of which have occurred in the last 10 year...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) That is beyond a joke. The noble Baroness knows very well that it is not what we said; it is not fun...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) Let me try again. ““Neglect”” covers wilful recklessness where the employer does not care. How is th...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely surprised that the Minister comes to the Committee to introduce amendments that will ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 97B and 97C: 97B: After Clause 40, insert the following new Clause— ““Offenc...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c75 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the formulation of the offence was put in subsequently and was not original, but we c...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c75 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 97A: 97A: Clause 40, page 19, line 36, leave out ““level 5 on the standard sca...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c77 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I must apologise to the Minister for not listening properly the first time round. On ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) Clause 43 will allow the regulator to request books and documentation from employers to demonstrate ...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c77 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 98: 98: Clause 43, page 20, line 16, at end insert— ““( ) Notwithstanding anyt...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c76 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 97D and 97E: 97D: Clause 41, page 20, line 1, after ““information)”” insert—...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c77 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for agreeing to split the amendments from an earlier group, which was ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 97F: 97F: Clause 43, page 20, line 10, leave out ““of this Part, or this Chapt...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c78 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that and look forward to hearing further how the Government intend to resol...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c78 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 98A: 98A: Transpose Clause 43 to after Clause 57 On Question, amendment agree...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92J: 92J: Clause 35, page 17, line 23, leave out ““appeal”” and insert ““refer...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) The Bill gives the Pensions Regulator power to review all notices that it may issue as part of the c...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c68 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 94: 94: Clause 38, page 19, line 2, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall”” Th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c68 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 93A: 93A: Clause 36, page 18, line 18, leave out ““appeal”” and insert ““refer...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c68 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 92K and 92L: 92K: Clause 36, page 17, line 37, leave out ““appeal under sect...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c70 (Link to this contribution) Surely if a notice has an escalating penalty and you change that to a fixed penalty, that is varying...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c69 (Link to this contribution) I asked what the difference was between varying a notice and substituting a different notice, becaus...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) That is the point that I was trying to address. It seems to me that one example might be if one move...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that answer. I was questioning why it was necessary to include ““vary”” in subsect...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c70 (Link to this contribution) We are getting into semantics. It is a different form of notice. In some circumstances it may be app...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 96: 96: Clause 40, page 19, line 34, leave out from ““indictment”” to ““to”” i...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 95A to 95D: 95A: Clause 39, page 19, line 10, after ““may”” insert ““, if on...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for the opportunity to discuss the principle of having an imprisonment op...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) Now that we have had the opportunity to hear the noble Baroness’s and the Government’s amendments, m...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his support. I re-emphasise the point, which I hope I made, that the offe...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) The Minister focused his attention on the meaning of ““wilfully””. That was not what I asked him. I ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has quite properly posed some detailed questions. If I may, I shall reflect on th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c84 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 102A: 102A: Transpose Clause 45 to after Clause 57 On Question, amendment agr...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c84 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving the Motion, I suggest that the Committee stage...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that was what I said. That misunderstanding may be running over from the previous leg...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c84 (Link to this contribution) By using the word ““amnesia”” I meant that, if a particular individual who has just been transferred...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 703 c79 (Link to this contribution) In this context, can the Minister confirm that ““premises”” will mean only business premises and not...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) Where the regulator is of the opinion that an employer is not or may not be complying with its new d...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 99: 99: Clause 44, page 20, line 36, leave out subsection (3) The noble Lord ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c80 (Link to this contribution) I am reminded of a late noble Lord who was on the opposite Front Bench for some years. He had a clef...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c80 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 99ZA: 99ZA: Clause 44, page 20, line 38, leave out from ““employer”” to ““at””...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c80 (Link to this contribution) It seems that I am not the only one whose attention slips during a long and warm afternoon. I asked ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c80 (Link to this contribution) They may be perfectly reasonable and sensible questions but they are not in my brief. I am being bri...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c78 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 98B: 98B: Clause 44, page 20, line 24, after ““2008”” insert ““or section 50 o...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c81 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; I do not have the answer to that question and it would be wrong of me to try to guess it...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c81 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 101: 101: Clause 44, page 21, line 13, leave out ““““employee”””” and insert “...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 101AA: 101AA: Clause 44, page 21, line 16, at end insert— ““(D1) In the applic...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c82 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 102: 102: Clause 45, page 21, leave out lines 30 to 33 The noble Lord said: I...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) This amendment would disable the new provision for HMRC to share information with the Pensions Regul...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c83 (Link to this contribution) This is obviously a recurring theme of mine. I am worried that to a great extent transferees have to...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c81 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 100A: 100A: Clause 44, page 21, line 8, at end insert ““or under any correspon...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c81 (Link to this contribution) When I was a junior Minister in the Northern Ireland department, it was made clear to me that the Pr...
Baroness Noakes | 703 c74 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is clearly not even trying, so we will not make much progress today. I hear that the Li...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c81 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 100: 100: Clause 44, page 21, line 3, leave out ““employees of the employer ar...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 703 c55 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that assurance. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, for support...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c47 (Link to this contribution) That might have been a hopeful opportunity, but it was also a fairly hopeful response. I shall come ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c77 (Link to this contribution) The purpose is to move the amendments to a new Chapter 4; subsequent chapters would obviously need t...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c82 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 101B: 101B: Transpose Clause 44 to after Clause 57 On Question, amendment agr...

Subjects

Disclosure of information
Devolved matters
Crime
Company liquidations
Administration
Cooperation
Inspections
Fixed penalties
Employers' contributions
Fines
Powers of entry
Northern Ireland
Workplace pensions
Pensions
Regulation
Take-up
Revenue and Customs
Pensions Regulator
Pensions Regulator Tribunal
Personal accounts

Legislation

Pensions Bill 2007-08

Link

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