UK Parliament / Open data

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 21 February 2008, in the House of Lords.
Banking (Special Provisions) Bill. Lords Committee stage. Clauses 1 to 13 agreed to, with clauses 6, 11, 13 agreed to as amended. Schedules 1 and 2 agreed to. Bill reported with amendments.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

699 c275-345 

Session

2007-08

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Government defeats
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 34-EN also published.
Wednesday, 20 February 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl Ferrers | 699 c283 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Desai, frightens me even more than the noble Lord, Lord Newby, because the nobl...
Lord Desai | 699 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, it is possible that all three reasons are required to exp...

Show all contributions (146)
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 699 c283 (Link to this contribution) There may be one, two or three good reasons why there should be the 12-month period, with the power ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if the noble Lord thought my question irresponsible. I am simply puzzled by the Governme...
Lord Marlesford | 699 c282 (Link to this contribution) One of the points made by my noble friend Lord Forsyth was that the Minister answered virtually none...
Lord Ryder of Wensum | 699 c281 (Link to this contribution) When this matter was debated in the other place, the Minister, Yvette Cooper, fell back, rather half...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c281 (Link to this contribution) I will send the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, a note containing a list of all the banks that have been n...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) Anyone who listened to the debate yesterday could not have failed to realise that many noble Lords a...
Lord Bilimoria | 699 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a point which has been overlooked time and again: the fact that a Government have inj...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c279 (Link to this contribution) One great advantage of the amendment—indeed it is more than an advantage, it is a necessity—is that ...
Lord Newby | 699 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) Among many other things, the Northern Rock debacle has demonstrated that there are gaps in the regul...
Lord Whitty | 699 c279 (Link to this contribution) I oppose these amendments, particularly Amendment No. 2. I declare my interest as chair of the Natio...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 2, page 2, line 40, leave out ““year”” and insert ““month”” The ...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c277 (Link to this contribution) I am following the noble Lord with interest. Could he explain why the nationalisation of Johnson Mat...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c277 (Link to this contribution) That is a different situation. It was not a nationalisation in the same way that this is. As with ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) I very much support my noble friend in this amendment. I was extremely disappointed by the Minister’...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c275 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c289 (Link to this contribution) I am so sorry, but the noble Lord has the charming ability to make everyone appear to be duffers if ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c290 (Link to this contribution) I emphasise again that there are no obligations on Northern Rock in that respect with regard to Gran...
Lord Marlesford | 699 c289 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord leaves the subject, he has admitted that Dolerite existed and that it was a SI...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c289 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord must accept that my original answer encompassed this concept, but I will spell it out...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c290 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, he is what one might call off side. Second Reading spe...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c290 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the Minister again, but I asked that question yesterday. I believe that...
Lord Tordoff | 699 c290 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord answers, perhaps I may say that I am a bit baffled. Although I came somewhat l...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c289 (Link to this contribution) As I have sought to emphasise, because of the nature of the relationship between Granite and Norther...
Lord Trimble | 699 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the Minister said about there being no transfer to Granite since September of last yea...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c288 (Link to this contribution) Of course the noble Lord is right that it is the responsibility of the Executive to respond, but we ...
Lord Bilimoria | 699 c286 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to come in again, but the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, mentioned the way in which things hav...
Lord Blackwell | 699 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) Since I was not able to intervene yesterday, I should start by declaring my interest as a director o...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c287 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. I shall seek to answer the questions...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord will forgive me, I should continue. Because the Committee stage was due to follow ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c288 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the noble Lord. I should also say that one reason why I took so long yesterday w...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c288 (Link to this contribution) I plead guilty to repeatedly intervening; that is what we are here for. I completely understand the ...
Lord Lawson of Blaby | 699 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Trimble. I say at this early stage in our proceedings that it is impo...
Lord Trimble | 699 c283-5 (Link to this contribution) One of the pleasures of debate in Committee is that, having looked at an amendment and having though...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c310 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is asking why the taxpayers cannot have the same information as was provided to Rich...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c310 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will recognise the intensive interest in Northern Rock that the Treasury has been obl...
Lord Leach of Fairford | 699 c310 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to persist—I realise this question has, in a way, been asked before—but it is a regulator...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) If in its future business plan Northern Rock has any transactions with Granite, then of course Grani...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c314 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Clause 10, page 10, line 27, at end insert— ““( ) No provision may be ma...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 699 c311-2 (Link to this contribution) Before I reply, I wish to say that I agree with my noble friend Lord Tordoff. I fear that on both si...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c311 (Link to this contribution) The Government have nothing to hide on this issue. I recognise that the noble Lord is not speaking f...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c315 (Link to this contribution) In anticipation of that billet-doux, I welcome the concession of the Minister. I beg leave to withdr...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c315-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause— ““Freedom of informati...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should make it clear, as I did last night, that I have every sympathy with the Minister. I...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c318-9 (Link to this contribution) I have no difficulty replying to this amendment; nor do I enlist sympathy from the House—certainly n...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c318 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. What is it about Northern Rock, other than that it will pay highe...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will be the first to recognise that areas of the Freedom of Information Act do not ob...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c319 (Link to this contribution) If that is so, why are the Government leaping to exclude Northern Rock?
Lord De Mauley | 699 c323-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 9: 9: After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause— ““Impact on competitio...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for making some very telling points in support of ...
Lord Newby | 699 c317 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I very much agree with all the arguments put forward by the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Newby | 699 c324 (Link to this contribution) We support this amendment. There has been a lot of discussion about the extent to which Northern Roc...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c292 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is on shifting sands. I know that a week is a long time in politics, but when the Chanc...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) I have limitless patience; the question I have to judge is the patience of the Committee. We are con...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c292 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for saying that this applies to Northern Rock and only to Norther...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c293 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify once again that he is no longer pursuing his language of last night, when ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c293 (Link to this contribution) I have enough problems with this amendment. The noble Lord is effectively anticipating later amendme...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 699 c293 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord clear up one point for me? He is very anxious to stress the irrelevance of the s...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) Circumstances which the Government cannot foresee—that is the whole point and burden of my remarks. ...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c294 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for battling through with his response, but I know that we are all gra...
Lord Newby | 699 c296-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: 3: Clause 6, page 5, line 46, at end insert— ““( ) An order under this sect...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c297-8 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to the introduction by noble Lord, Lord Newby, of his amendments in th...
Lord Whitty | 699 c298 (Link to this contribution) It is difficult to argue with Amendment No. 5, the second amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Newby, b...
Lord Desai | 699 c298-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure that I agree with my noble friend Lord Whitty, which distresses me very much. Th...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 3 moved by the noble Lord, Lord Newby, makes provision for there to be, "““a quarterly...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c300 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a couple of comments on this group of amendments. First, Amendment No. 4, with which ...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) I beg the Committee’s pardon. Anyhow, there is a warning: it should be the Financial Services Author...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c301 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I will first address Amendment No. ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c303 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way and I acknowledge the chastisement from the noble ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c303 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to openness and the Government with regard to Northern Rock when I address Amendment No...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c301 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee and to the Minister, but can he confirm that it will not therefore be p...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c301-3 (Link to this contribution) I probably can confirm that but, as the noble Lord has raised this, if the framework document can be...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c301 (Link to this contribution) When will the Minister publish that framework document?
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c301 (Link to this contribution) The intention is to do that as rapidly as possible. I do not have the hour to hand, but in my commit...
Lord Davies of Coity | 699 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) I had hoped that I had covered that issue to a degree yesterday. We have a later amendment that will...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 699 c304 (Link to this contribution) How does the noble Lord propose to deal with the point made by my noble friend Lord Naseby yesterday...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord will show a little more patience, I shall flesh out the process of parliamentary s...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c303 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Minister for interrupting him again, but I asked him a straightforward, simple qu...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment and agree with all the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshot...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have addressed the Committee on these amendments, which suggest...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c309 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure what the Minister is saying. If there was an accountant’s report prepared for the bidd...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c309 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord says. However, these reports were for the purposes of the two organisatio...
Lord Newby | 699 c305 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, that my...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c309 (Link to this contribution) One of the reasons I stand at the Dispatch Box is that I am not an accountant. I am not going into w...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 699 c309 (Link to this contribution) We know that Granite appeared in past accounts of Northern Rock and, presumably, the Minister knows ...
Lord Lipsey | 699 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not have a particular view on the mechanism with which these competition issues should be addre...
Lord Naseby | 699 c324 (Link to this contribution) I, too, very much support the amendment. The problem for the Committee is that we have to work from ...
Lord Bach | 699 c328 (Link to this contribution) If the Office of Fair Trading is looking at this, it is likely in any event that it will do so after...
Lord Naseby | 699 c328 (Link to this contribution) My problem with the statement that the OFT will publish an annual report is that the Minister keeps ...
Lord Bach | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the noble and learned Lord says, of course. His experience of the OFT is greater than ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly surprised that the Minister should say that. The Office of Fair Trading frequently sta...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) On the issue that has just been raised, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Baker, and, indeed, the no...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 699 c325 (Link to this contribution) I consider that comment rather naïve. It is able to offer the most attractive interest rates in the ...
Lord Bach | 699 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) The amendment seeks assurances that Northern Rock will not be able to compete unfairly with other ba...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may respond to the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell. I happily agree with him that if we were deal...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) It may be all that the Minister wants to say, but it does not answer the question. It is wrong to sa...
Lord Bach | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for not answering that question. I did not intend to be discourteous; I...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it was inadvertence by the noble Lord rather than discourtesy, but he failed to reply...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c330 (Link to this contribution) I reinforce what my noble friend Lord Desai said about the objections that noble Lords opposite are ...
Lord Christopher | 699 c330 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask my noble friend two questions. My understanding is that Northern Rock has already ...
Lord Desai | 699 c329-30 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend answers, let me say that the implication of what the noble Lord said is that,...
Lord Bach | 699 c329 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely appreciate that.
Lord De Mauley | 699 c331 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his assurances. However, we believe that, in view of Northern Rock’s specia...
Lord Bach | 699 c331 (Link to this contribution) I am not in a position completely to answer the questions asked by my noble friend Lord Christopher,...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c331 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can put the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, straight on something. Those of us who have made obs...
Lord Goodhart | 699 c334 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my colleagues on the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and I will be g...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c333-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 11: 11: Clause 11, page 10, line 41, leave out ““any enactment”” and insert ““...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c334-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 12 to 13: 12: Clause 11, page 11, line 16, at end insert— ““(e) sections 90 ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 699 c334 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, spoke before me as I wanted to take the opportuni...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c335-6 (Link to this contribution) The Committee will have seen from the consideration of the previous amendments, which I moved on beh...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c335 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14: 14: Clause 12, page 11, line 34, leave out paragraph (a) The noble Lord s...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c336-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16: 16: Clause 13, page 12, line 22, at end insert— ““(2A) A statutory instrum...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c336 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his words, which I need to give further thought. While I reserve t...
Earl Ferrers | 699 c339 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, the Captain of the Queen’s Bodyguard, introduced the amendment, I thought I detec...
Lord Goodhart | 699 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) The role of the Select Committee on Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform is to advise the House, a...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister does sit down, may I make a request that does not stem from the degree of learni...
Lord Goodhart | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) There is nothing particularly novel or unusual about including a dehybridisation clause. It was last...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) If that was an intervention before I had sat down, I am unduly grateful for it.
Earl Ferrers | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) I asked the Minister whether he would be good enough to explain why, in an Act of Parliament—at leas...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) It does not involve telling a lie but it introduces a complex concept, which the noble Earl is right...
Lord Eatwell | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend referred, as did many noble Lords, to the new legislation on banking supervision tha...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c343 (Link to this contribution) As ever, my noble friend produces a timely representation. I have been at pains to emphasise the nee...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for these government amendments but, as I have pointed out before, it is unprecedented...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c341-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has distinguished himself by his contributions so far both on Second Reading and in C...
Lord Newby | 699 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) I find myself in an unusual situation regarding these amendments because I am not in complete agreem...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c345 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has been with us through many long hours, so he will recognise that I have all along ...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c345 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to detain your Lordships long. We have had a very useful debate and I am particularly ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c345 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord. I may be no lawyer but I am reasonably competent on parliamentary pro...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c345 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 18: 18: Clause 13, page 12, line 23, after ““Act”” insert ““to which subsectio...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) Not very much, except that I was lacking the confidence to respond to him in quite that way. I give ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that Pepper v Hart will apply in determining hybridity?
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) I am somewhat stretched on that issue. Let me explain the purpose of this amendment. We are discussi...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 699 c345 (Link to this contribution) Like the Minister, I am not a lawyer but my understanding of Pepper v Hart is that statements made a...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) I will take steps should the opportunity present itself. I have been assured that my arguments, whi...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c344 (Link to this contribution) If his arguments are sufficient for the purpose that I have raised, what would the Government lose b...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c292 (Link to this contribution) I have just explained the problems with hybridity in terms of the timescale in which we would have t...
Lord De Mauley | 699 c307 (Link to this contribution) I share completely the demand of the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, for an independent audit. Among man...
Lord Bach | 699 c315 (Link to this contribution) In rising to speak for the first time on this Bill, I feel I ought to register the fact that I am a ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 699 c293 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is bringing to my attention that the Chancellor of the Exchequer expresses himself...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 699 c300 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 5 covers a very wide range of possibilities in the area of the bank’s enterprise. I su...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 699 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 6, page 5, line 46, at end insert— ““( ) An order under this sect...
Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 699 c309 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister has not answered my question perhaps I may ask him a simple question: does he regard...

Subjects

Compensation
Audit
Administration
Corporation tax
Banks
Competition
Building societies
Freedom of information
Liability
EU law
Government assistance
Financial Services Authority
Powers
Property transfer
Mortgages
Loans
Staff
Office of Fair Trading
Nationalisation
Lloyds TSB
Shares
Reform
Taxation
Shareholders
Takeovers
Treasury
Hybrid bills
Business plans
Northern Rock
Granite

Legislation

Banking (Special Provisions) Bill 2007-08

Link

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