Legal Services Bill (HL). Programme motion (No 2) on proceedings on Report and in Third Reading. Agreed to on question. Report stage. New clauses 2 and 6 debated and withdrawn. Amendments made to the Bill. Third Reading debate. Agreed to on question. Bill passed with amendments.
Legal Services Bill [Lords]
Debate on bills on Monday, 15 October 2007,
in the House of Commons,
led by Bridget Prentice.
The answering
member was Lord Bellingham.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
464 c571-668, (corrigendum) 942;464 c571-668Session
2006-07Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamberRelated items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Beamish | 464 c595 (Link to this contribution)
Sorry, as my hon. Friend says, that was last week. Were the hon. Gentleman into that approach, he wo...
John Hemming | 464 c595 (Link to this contribution)
Obviously, the hon. Gentleman's arguments for the independence of the chair of the legal services bo...
Show all contributions (122)
John Hemming | 464 c591 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that there is an argument for the legal services board, and parti...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c591-4 (Link to this contribution)
That argument can certainly be made, but I am saying that it will not apply to all lawyers in all ca...
Lord Beamish | 464 c594 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak to amendment No. 75, which stands in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for...
Lord Mann | 464 c594 (Link to this contribution)
That was last week.
David Heath | 464 c595-7 (Link to this contribution)
This is an important group of amendments, dealing as it does with the constitution, the consumer pan...
Lord Mann | 464 c598-600 (Link to this contribution)
Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) is no longer in the Chambe...
David Heath | 464 c597-8 (Link to this contribution)
I would agree except that I do not believe that power under the Bill would be exercised in any real ...
Lord Beamish | 464 c595 (Link to this contribution)
I am sad that the Liberals have fallen for that nonsense. The hon. Member for North Southwark and Be...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c589 (Link to this contribution)
Let me deal with the second point first. Discussions about constitutional reform are not relevant to...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c588 (Link to this contribution)
We all accept that the judiciary, solicitors and barristers are independent of Government. If I may ...
Robert Neill | 464 c588-9 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the last part of what the Minister said, but, with respect, I fail to understand the argum...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c588 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman looks back at our debate in Committee, he will read that I said—I repeat the p...
John Hemming | 464 c588 (Link to this contribution)
As the Under-Secretary may know, I have had some involvement in the private sector, where shares are...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c587 (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely reassure the hon. Gentleman that under no circumstances would that be the case. I am ta...
John Hemming | 464 c588 (Link to this contribution)
I experienced the same difficulty during pre-legislative scrutiny and in Committee in understanding ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c589-91 (Link to this contribution)
First, I declare an interest as member of the Law Society and of the corporate finance faculty of th...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c589 (Link to this contribution)
If both must agree, it is not concurrence when only one can make the decision. I am not sure what th...
Robert Neill | 464 c589 (Link to this contribution)
It is still the Lord Chancellor's decision.
Robert Neill | 464 c580 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the hon. Gentleman has the grace to congratulate the Solicitors Regulation Authority on ...
Robert Neill | 464 c580-1 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to make progress, and I hope to conclude shortly.
The Law Society's president made it...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c581-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to hear the opening remarks from across the House about how we have reached this stage ...
David Heath | 464 c582 (Link to this contribution)
It is pronounced ““Froom””.
Bridget Prentice | 464 c582-4 (Link to this contribution)
I shall keep practising; if I work hard enough, I might even end up with a west country accent.
I u...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c584 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for her explanation on Government amendments Nos. 83 and 84. She has m...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c585 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment No. 78, in page 3, line 33, leave out subsection (2) and insert—
Speaker | 464 c585-6 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment No. 6, in page 3, line 36, at e...
David Heath | 464 c587 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to the Minister. I hope that I am not understanding her to say that the Nol...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c586-7 (Link to this contribution)
As you were reading out that list of amendments. Mr. Deputy Speaker, you reminded me of what the hon...
Lord Beamish | 464 c580 (Link to this contribution)
I agree, but that is not what the new clause says. If a legal point is at stake, one can always have...
Lord Mann | 464 c577 (Link to this contribution)
It might be scandalous thing to say, but the police have an honourable profession and we do not allo...
David Heath | 464 c577 (Link to this contribution)
First, I declare a non-interest: I am not a lawyer or in any way a member of the legal profession. I...
Lord Mann | 464 c576 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for North-West Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) is as eloquent and courteous as ever, but he...
Robert Neill | 464 c576-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying, and we have run over some of it in the past. I...
Lord Beamish | 464 c579 (Link to this contribution)
First, may I welcome the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) to his responsibilities? I t...
David Heath | 464 c579 (Link to this contribution)
In a judicial review, an administrative court would look only at the way in which decisions on the r...
Lord Beamish | 464 c578 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman about judicial review on a point of law, but that is not what the ne...
David Heath | 464 c578-9 (Link to this contribution)
With all due respect, I am not sure that that is the case. A judicial review can only take place on ...
Lord Mann | 464 c580 (Link to this contribution)
As one of those accused of being an obsessive, may I ask the hon. Gentleman what proportion of solic...
Robert Neill | 464 c580 (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief, and shall begin with the point with which the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jo...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c601 (Link to this contribution)
I shall be very brief, because it is clear where the House agrees and disagrees on these issues.
On...
David Kidney | 464 c601 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, because I have in front of me the briefin...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c600 (Link to this contribution)
At least half of the organisations that the hon. Gentleman mentions as having accepted the Governmen...
David Kidney | 464 c600 (Link to this contribution)
I was a member of the Joint Committee on the draft Bill, and I declare an interest as a non-practisi...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c601 (Link to this contribution)
With this issue going back to the Lords in the very near future and there not being much time, an ea...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c574-6 (Link to this contribution)
In some ways I agree with the hon. Gentleman and I know that he feels that some of his constituents ...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c572 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Lord Beamish | 464 c574 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman thinks that the regulation of solicitors and the legal profession has been wit...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c573-4 (Link to this contribution)
First, I should like to declare my entry in the Register of Members' Interests as a qualified, but n...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c611 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman think that unions will be adequately regulated?
Lord Beamish | 464 c610-1 (Link to this contribution)
I oppose the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly) on trade unions.
I t...
Lord Beamish | 464 c611 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman is referring to the broader issue concerning the trade union movement—
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c609-10 (Link to this contribution)
I shall not give way, as we have covered the point pretty well.
I simply do not understand how the ...
David Kidney | 464 c613 (Link to this contribution)
Like the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly), I have read the Law Society brief. It says that ...
David Heath | 464 c612 (Link to this contribution)
I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) on his am...
Lord Beamish | 464 c611 (Link to this contribution)
There is not a yes or no answer. If the hon. Gentleman took the time to understand the subject that ...
David Heath | 464 c612-3 (Link to this contribution)
Yes; the hon. Gentleman has pre-empted my third point. The hon. Member for North Durham is absolutel...
David Kidney | 464 c612 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones) gave one other reason why trade unions are di...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c605-7 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman will have his chance to speak. I ask him to let me make my case. The Minister was...
Lord Beamish | 464 c605 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c605 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak to amendment No. 35 and other amendments in my name and the name of my hon. Friends on...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c608-9 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman should be concerned that the union is not regulated. In previous debates on the B...
Lord Beamish | 464 c608 (Link to this contribution)
As someone who used to run a legal department for a trade union, may I tell the hon. Gentleman what ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c608 (Link to this contribution)
The problem with that argument is that in the rest of the Bill, it has been decided that entities sh...
Lord Beamish | 464 c608 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that, even after lengthy discussion in Committee during which I explained to the hon. Gen...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c607-8 (Link to this contribution)
May I just finish this point, as it gets more interesting?
That means that a regulator such as the ...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c601-2 (Link to this contribution)
I can tell the House that, between now and the Bill going to the Lords, I will do my best to speak t...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c602 (Link to this contribution)
I have just been reminded that I keep saying ““the Lord Chancellor”” instead of ““the Lord Chief Jus...
David Heath | 464 c602 (Link to this contribution)
That would be the case only if the Lord Chief Justice was seen simply as a representative of the leg...
Lord Beamish | 464 c602 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) said, the way...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c603 (Link to this contribution)
I have already engaged in correspondence with the Lord Chief Justice and in discussions on how consu...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c603 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister says, rightly, that we disagree. However, if we are to go down the consultation route, ...
Speaker | 464 c603-4 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 35, in page 7, line 20, lea...
John Hemming | 464 c603 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment No. 152, in page 7, line 13, at end insert—
John Hemming | 464 c604-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) has made some valid points about the need for regulation a...
Lord Beamish | 464 c663-5 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the Bill.
The hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly) accused me of being obsessive, bu...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c653-7 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
After many hours of debate in Committee an...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c657-60 (Link to this contribution)
Given the significant time period from the inspirational and far-thinking Clementi process and repor...
David Kidney | 464 c660-1 (Link to this contribution)
I believe that scrutiny and debate of the Bill in this House has been exemplary, and I hope that the...
David Heath | 464 c661-3 (Link to this contribution)
It was splendid to have a speech with its own commercial break. The Under-Secretary of State for Jus...
David Kidney | 464 c646 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend believe that a good regulator, in a disciplinary matter, would, as a matter of c...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c646-7 (Link to this contribution)
I agree that a good regulator would do so. I hope that when the office for legal complaints tells th...
Lord Mann | 464 c665-8 (Link to this contribution)
Is another Bill coming up? I am always available to serve the House, as required.
When I entered my...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c645 (Link to this contribution)
It may help the hon. Gentleman to know that I am pleased to accept his amendments to Government amen...
David Heath | 464 c645 (Link to this contribution)
It is a joy to hear that from a Minister. We are always pleased when Ministers accept our amendments...
David Heath | 464 c645 (Link to this contribution)
I have three amendments in the group before us. I am persuaded that one of them, amendment No. 145, ...
Speaker | 464 c641-3 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments:
No. 154, in page 68, line 41, ...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c643-5 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 153 is the lead amendment in a key group that relates to complaints—in particular, who...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c639-40 (Link to this contribution)
A lot of important points have been made in the debate, and I wish that we had more time to discuss ...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c641 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment No. 153, in page 68, line 37, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.
Mark Field | 464 c635-7 (Link to this contribution)
Understandably, the potentially huge change to the structure of the UK legal practice heralded by th...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c637-9 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate the comments made by the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly), although I am not s...
Lord Beamish | 464 c646 (Link to this contribution)
May I speak to amendment No. 76, which I tabled with my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John M...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c631-3 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point that has been supported by both his party and mine...
David Kidney | 464 c633-4 (Link to this contribution)
I want to thank the Minister for the amendments that she is making in respect of ““legal practice pl...
David Heath | 464 c634-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney) is absolutely right to say that the possibility exists of ...
John Hemming | 464 c620 (Link to this contribution)
Although I am not entirely persuaded by the Under-Secretary, I should like to ask leave to withdraw ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c628 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 464 c628-9 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments:
No. 65, in clause 71, page 41,...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c629-30 (Link to this contribution)
In moving new clause 6, I initially note that there is no doubt that the alternative business struct...
Mark Field | 464 c631 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend recognise that the Law Society was making the same arguments some 20 or so years...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c631 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a good point, but the Law Society welcomes the changes. However, when they are ...
Lord Beith | 464 c631 (Link to this contribution)
Before the hon. Gentleman is too persuaded by the argument of his colleague, the hon. Member for Cit...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c618 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister discussed how alternative business structures would apply to trademark attorneys and pa...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c618-20 (Link to this contribution)
To be fair to the hon. Gentleman, I have already answered that question with regard to the different...
Tony Lloyd | 464 c615-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman simply digs a bigger hole for himself. The simple truth is that, as my hon. Frien...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c616-8 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a very interesting debate, and it is not surprising that it has divided us in this way...
David Heath | 464 c613 (Link to this contribution)
My candid view is that they do not. That is why I hope that other wording that does the job will eme...
Lord Beamish | 464 c613 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Does he agree that some such issues are caught by the claims-handli...
Tony Lloyd | 464 c615 (Link to this contribution)
I begin by pointing out to the House that I had to miss the earlier part of the debate because I had...
Jonathan Djanogly | 464 c615 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right inasmuch as the miners' compensation scheme refers to incidents that hap...
Lord Mann | 464 c614-5 (Link to this contribution)
To varying degrees, there is support on both sides of the House for an exemption for trade unions. I...
Lord Bellingham | 464 c647 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister, who has made our day with this group of amendments. There are two imp...
John Hemming | 464 c597 (Link to this contribution)
In the business context one talks about hiring and firing, so does my hon. Friend agree that the pow...
David Heath | 464 c613-4 (Link to this contribution)
It is interesting; yes, the hon. Gentleman is right in that particular instance. As he knows, I also...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c646 (Link to this contribution)
First, may I reiterate that I am happy to accept amendments (a) and (b) to Government amendments No....
David Kidney | 464 c645 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for Government amendments Nos. 93 and 97, but in each case I ask whether she ha...
Speaker | 464 c572-3 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment No. 1, in clause 1, page 2, lin...
Bridget Prentice | 464 c602 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend, as always, makes the case eloquently. We will have to agree to disagree on this matt...
Notes
Daily part printing error - In c625, insert 'Donohoe, Mr Brian H.' after 'Dobson, rh Frank'.
Subjects
Librarians' tools
Timestamp
2024-02-08 18:02:49 +0000
URI
http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_65832
In Indexing
http://indexing.parliament.uk/Content/Edit/1?uri=http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_65832
In Solr
https://search.parliament.uk/claw/solr/?id=http://data.parliament.uk/pimsdata/hansard/PROCEEDING_65832