Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill. Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clauses 121 to 183 agreed to; clauses 128, 152, 176, 178 agreed to as amended. Schedules 8, 9, 11, 12 agreed to.
Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Tuesday, 17 July 2007,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
694 c191-246Session
2006-07Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 74-EN also published.
Wednesday, 23 May 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 23 May 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Andrews | 694 c216 (Link to this contribution)
It is my understanding that these provisions are comprehensive, but I will double-check that with my...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c216 (Link to this contribution)
I realised that it must be a bus that had passed towards the end of last year. I ask the Minister on...
Show all contributions (92)
Baroness Andrews | 694 c215-6 (Link to this contribution)
Amendments Nos. 216A and 217C would remove the exemptions for the scrutiny of police authorities fro...
Lord Greaves | 694 c219-20 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that comprehensive reply, which is what I hoped that I would get when I tabled thi...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c217-9 (Link to this contribution)
I shall reiterate briefly what I said earlier. The Bill strengthens the OandS provisions in the Loca...
Lord Greaves | 694 c216-7 (Link to this contribution)
I rise technically to oppose Clause 123 standing part of the Bill and to speak to the amendments gro...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c216 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
On ...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c220-2 (Link to this contribution)
It is wonderful to see the Liberal party so joined up, discovering their amendments synchronised by ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c220 (Link to this contribution)
Amendments Nos. 216C, 216D and 216E in this group stand in my name and are all designed to achieve t...
Lord Greaves | 694 c220 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 216B:
216B: Clause 124, page 80, line 11, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c231 (Link to this contribution)
I repeat what I said last time. We need to take note of the noble Baroness’s answers on this group o...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c230-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225ZD:
225ZD: Clause 131, page 89, line 5, insert—
““(1A) Where an authority h...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c231 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 225ZD is essential to ensure that by-laws are enforced in line with established proced...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c230 (Link to this contribution)
While we are seeing whether we can get the answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, p...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c230 (Link to this contribution)
Again, I thank the noble Baroness for her answer. This series of amendments seeks to clarify the sit...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c229-30 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225ZC:
225ZC: After Clause 130, insert the following new Clause—
““Timetable f...
Lord Greaves | 694 c230 (Link to this contribution)
I support this amendment which puts in legislative form what I said earlier. I think the Minister wa...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c229 (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, comes in, I can give a little more detail. I understand th...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c229 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her response. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, that it confirms o...
Lord Greaves | 694 c228 (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment, which I assume he is going to do, I must say that thi...
Lord Greaves | 694 c226-7 (Link to this contribution)
It might help the Committee and perhaps speed progress if I speak now to the question on whether Cla...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c227-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Hanningfield and Lord Greaves, for the way in which they have...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c224 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot answer that question; I shall do so as soon as I am able. I hope that noble Lords will be p...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c224 (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
[Amendments Nos. 218A to 221 not moved.]
Clause 125 agreed ...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c224-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225:
225: Clause 128, page 86, line 42, at end insert—
““( ) in subsection (2)...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c225-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225ZA:
225ZA: Clause 130, page 88, leave out lines 16 and 17
The noble Lord s...
Lord Greaves | 694 c222-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am astonished by that response—I thank the Minister, but I am still astonished. It seems to go aga...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c223 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 218:
218: Clause 125, page 84, line 7, leave out from beginning to ““a””
The ...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c223-4 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate why the Local Government Association wanted an explanation for this. There is nothing s...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c224 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister said that it is right to address these complicated matters through regulations. We shou...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c240-1 (Link to this contribution)
While I am speaking, the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, might be able to work out how to make her poin...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c240 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that reply and look forward to her letter.
Clause 150 agreed to.
Schedule...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c240 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 226:
226: Clause 152, page 106, line 1, leave out ““inspector”” and insert ““a...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c242-3 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 226AA seeks an additional requirement on persons authorised under Clause 165 to receiv...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c242 (Link to this contribution)
The fact that the Audit Commission agrees to something does not necessarily mean that it is going in...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c242 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 226AA:
226AA: Clause 165, page 111, line 34, at end insert—
““( ) Any informat...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c240 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I cannot give the noble Baroness that information. I am not aware how far the consu...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c239-40 (Link to this contribution)
I am not quite ground down. I shall speak to this Question just to say something, if for no other re...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c239 (Link to this contribution)
My reaction is rather the same. As I heard it, we were told that this measure would enable much bett...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c232 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her answer, which was a little more helpful than some previous answers. If ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c232-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225A:
225A: Clause 134, page 94, line 11, leave out from beginning to first ““...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c233 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for her amendment. It would be helpful if I explai...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c233 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps we have received different briefings from different parts of the same organisation. I was no...
Lord Greaves | 694 c235-7 (Link to this contribution)
Listening to my noble friend, I got the impression that perhaps she understood this rather better th...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 694 c237-9 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know whether I classify myself as a teeny-bopper in the House of Lords but I am very much b...
Lord Greaves | 694 c239 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to say very much because I think that there is a total lack of communication here. The...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c232 (Link to this contribution)
In answer to the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, authorities have discretion. On Amen...
Lord Hanningfield | 694 c231-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225ZE:
225ZE: Clause 131, page 91, line 4, at end insert—
““(1A) But nothing i...
Baroness Crawley | 694 c243-4 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that I can enlighten the noble Baroness. Amendments Nos. 227 to 235 provide some fine-tuning ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c244 (Link to this contribution)
Somewhat to my surprise, I understood that answer and I am grateful for it. I beg leave to withdraw ...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c243 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that reply. At this hour of the night, I am not going to say anything more....
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c243 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 226B:
226B: Clause 173, page 117, line 20, leave out ““paragraphs (b) and (c)”...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 694 c246 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Baroness Andrews | 694 c245-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 231 to 235:
231: Clause 178, page 122, line 27, after ““of”” insert ““all or...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c244-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 227 to 230:
227: Clause 176, page 120, line 40, at end insert—
““(1ZA) A Loc...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c191 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Mov...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c193-4 (Link to this contribution)
The name of my noble friend Lord Hanningfield is attached to this amendment. Therefore, it is clear ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c196 (Link to this contribution)
I think we will end up simply differing on this. I wrote down the words ““horse’s mouth”” as the nob...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c194-6 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree that the amendments are important and I appreciate the spirit in which they are bro...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c210 (Link to this contribution)
How does the committee know what it will get from a member raising a subject? Will it rely entirely ...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c214-5 (Link to this contribution)
It is all about missing buses. It is the most extraordinary thing that in this place Bills pass by u...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c213-4 (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords have spoken with great experience and wisdom on this subject. I wish it were possible fo...
Lord Bruce-Lockhart | 694 c213 (Link to this contribution)
I am also happy to support the amendment. Social housing issues are, as we all know, immensely impor...
Lord Best | 694 c213 (Link to this contribution)
I would just add one ingredient to the discussion. Social housing providers are not the same as regi...
Lord Greaves | 694 c212-3 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham. In doing so, perhaps I ma...
Lord Greaves | 694 c210-1 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her slight enthusiasm for the ideas I put forward. She did not respond spec...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c210 (Link to this contribution)
It may be that the member does not want to exercise that right. He may feel more comfortable raising...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c215 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 216A:
216A: Clause 123, page 79, leave out line 18
The noble Baroness said: I...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c201 (Link to this contribution)
I will give the Minister an example and see how she reacts to it. Some time ago—this is an historica...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c199-200 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that the noble Lord cannot give a warmer welcome to this, because so much of what he said...
Lord Greaves | 694 c196-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215ZA:
215ZA: Clause 121, page 77, line 9, leave out ““local government””
The...
Lord Greaves | 694 c202-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for taking this matter seriously. We are not in any way against what t...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c202 (Link to this contribution)
That last comment about guidance is welcome but it raises the obvious question of why it has to be s...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c201-2 (Link to this contribution)
Part of the issue is what exactly the role, scope and functions of local authorities are. In this in...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c201 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very good example. I was thinking of the example of double-glazing to deal with aircraft n...
Lord Greaves | 694 c204 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister agree that with the large pile of different local government Acts we have, there i...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c203 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215ZAA:
215ZAA: Clause 121, page 77, line 12, leave out from beginning to ““en...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I shall not even comment on Amendment No. 215ZAA, because I, too, now have a completely superfluous ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I have now found the provision in Section 21 of the 2000 Act to which the Minister referred. I am gr...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I can see that nothing would give the noble Lord more pleasure than if I agreed that we should tie u...
Lord Bruce-Lockhart | 694 c205 (Link to this contribution)
I fully support my noble friend Lady Hanham on this issue. I am of course no longer chairman of the ...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c204-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215A:
215A: Clause 121, page 77, line 46, at end insert ““and””
The noble Bar...
Lord Bruce-Lockhart | 694 c206 (Link to this contribution)
I am trying to follow the argument. I believe that the Minister is saying that these can be referred...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c205-6 (Link to this contribution)
This is certainly a powerful lobby. The noble Lord may no longer be with the Local Government Associ...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c207-8 (Link to this contribution)
I suppose one of the best ways to do it would be to call them different things. We are here inviting...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c206-7 (Link to this contribution)
I would not dispute that. There is an inextricable relationship with social and economic affairs. Bu...
Lord Greaves | 694 c208-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215DA:
215DA: Clause 121, page 78, line 5, leave out from ““matters”” to end o...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c209-10 (Link to this contribution)
The more I learn about the comprehensiveness of the noble Lord’s experience in local government, the...
Baroness Andrews | 694 c241 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the noble Baroness that this is an important additional power for the Audit Commission ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c191-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215:
215: Before Clause 121, insert the following new Clause—
““Contractors’ d...
Baroness Hanham | 694 c211-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 215DC:
215DC: Clause 123, page 78, line 26, after ““authorities”” insert ““or ...
Baroness Hamwee | 694 c233-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 225E:
225E: Clause 138, page 96, line 15, after ““duty),”” insert ““after subs...
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