Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill

I am grateful to the Minister for taking this matter seriously. We are not in any way against what the Government are trying to do here—we welcome it—but are disappointed that it is so feeble. I hope that the Minister takes our comments in that light. I deliberately did not give lots of local examples. One of the big issues in the past year in Colne, where I live, has been the fire service: the proposal was to reduce the number of pumps from two to one. The local council was prominent in the campaigns to stop that; the Lancashire fire authority is a separate body. That is a proper function of a district council in such circumstances. I could bring to the Minister’s attention dozens of cases that are similar to the case raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham; that is what local councils do. They are the only body that has the legitimacy of being directly elected and they therefore take on anything to do with their community. The fire station in Colne happens to be in my ward—just—but there are three other wards in Colne. Could my two ward colleagues in Pendle have raised the matter if I had not thought it was important, although others in other wards could not? That would be ludicrous. The fire service covers more than just the town. There is an issue here which I hope the Minister will think about seriously. If the new power is to be used effectively, it must be widened. A brief point occurred to me during our debate. If, as a member of the public, I want my councillor to raise an issue but I have only one councillor or they are in the wrong party and for some reason will not raise it, why can I not go to another councillor in the town or the area and ask them to? It is a bit like the situation with the ombudsman; you used to have to go through a councillor if you wanted to take your council to the ombudsman. That was changed because a few people found that their councillor was being obstructive and refused to refer it. I used to take the view that you referred it on principle, whether or not you agreed with it. There is a practical problem there. Finally, I do not think that there is a conflict between strategic leadership and local things. Strategic leadership, if it is good, is about wider opportunities for the whole district and area. We are talking about problems or issues in a neighbourhood. They are linked not to what the district or county council does but to the problems that people have in that neighbourhood. The problems often affect a series of different agencies. My concern about the scope being drawn too tightly—this is also my concern about statutory guidance—is that in some councils lawyers, officials or those running the council will try to keep the matter as restricted as possible. They will use legislation and government guidance to stop people doing things rather than encourage them to do things. In many ways there are two types of councillor: those who want to encourage the public in and encourage that kind of activity, and those who want to say, ““No, you are out of order and cannot do it””. In my view, if this is to succeed, it is very important that it is as open and responsive as possible. I hope that the Minister will consider some of the issues that have been raised, if not my drafting. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.