Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Bill (HL). Lords Committee first day. Clause 1 debated and negatived. Clauses 2 to 10 debated and negatived. New clauses and schedules debated. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 70). Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.
Clause 1 [Prohibition against forcing another into marriage]:
On Question, Whether Clause 1 shall stand part of the Bill?
Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Bill [HL]
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
691 c231-90GCSession
2006-07Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand CommitteeRelated items
Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Bill (HL). As amended in Grand Committee.
Thursday, 10 May 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 10 May 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c246-50GC (Link to this contribution)
I did not think that the noble Baroness was at all grumpy. It is completely right and proper—I am lo...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c246GC (Link to this contribution)
While I welcome everything that was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, there were bits of what ...
Show all contributions (82)
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c265GC (Link to this contribution)
I should clarify that India has not yet signed up to the child abduction arrangements, but has indic...
Baroness Verma | 691 c265GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 3:
3: After Clause 1, leave out lines 123...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c274GC (Link to this contribution)
I understand what my noble friend has said about ensuring guidance for the judiciary. Does she accep...
Baroness Verma | 691 c289GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 11, Amendment No. 12A:
12A: After Clause 11, line 245, at ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c283GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 8 to 10:
8: Clause 11, page 5, line 3, leave out subsection (2) and insert—
...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c241-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I support where we are today. It is a great honour and privilege to be here. I pay tribute to the wa...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c242-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I would like to comment on that. There is a widely advertised case of an 11 year-old girl who was ta...
Lord Ahmed | 691 c241GC (Link to this contribution)
I have one question for the noble Baroness in relation to the religious side of the marriage. If a r...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c258GC (Link to this contribution)
I wish to make a couple of points which may not necessarily enlighten the noble Baroness, Lady Verma...
Baroness Verma | 691 c246GC (Link to this contribution)
Can I just come back on that? I did not mean to sound grumpy throughout this. We have always shown s...
Baroness Verma | 691 c256GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 2:
2: After Clause 1, leave out lines 16 ...
Baroness Verma | 691 c244-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her introduction to this amendment. This Bill has had an interesting passag...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c264GC (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. As I think I have indicated, 30 per cent of the cases which the Forced Marriage Unit deals w...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c264-5GC (Link to this contribution)
May I supplement that answer? First, there are the child abduction arrangements, which I believe the...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c263GC (Link to this contribution)
It is a seriousissue. The cost of creating a new remedy, if we have50 applications, is about £180,00...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c263GC (Link to this contribution)
I return to the question of costs. My noble friend mentioned the judiciary and the training requirem...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260GC (Link to this contribution)
We will be discussing that with members of the judiciary, such as the president of the Family Court....
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271-2GC (Link to this contribution)
We do not, wherever possible, want delay. I believe that that is the answer the noble Lord is lookin...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c272-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I have to say that it is a privilege doing business with her. I...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c271GC (Link to this contribution)
Given that we are talking about cases going to court and very distressing circumstances, would the M...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the amendment. An important part of what we sought to do wit...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Verma, asked about adequate protection and what that would mean. We have de...
Baroness Verma | 691 c270GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has gone a long way to reassure me about several of my concerns. Some questions still n...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c269GC (Link to this contribution)
They would indeed.
Lord Sheikh | 691 c268GC (Link to this contribution)
Would the undertaking need the involvement of police, or would the person apply to the court? Obviou...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c281-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I must say that as soon as the Official Opposition indicated that they wanted much more time to cons...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c284GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 11:
11: After Clause 11, insert the following new Schedule—
““Protection again...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c282-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I have taken the probing amendments to be what they are, but I have to confess that I am a little su...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted by the amendment. My Bill originally extended only to England and Wales, to respect t...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c278GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendment. I am pleased that Northern Ireland is going to be included. Having been to ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c243GC (Link to this contribution)
On the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Park, when I went to Derby to visit Karma Nirvana...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c257GC (Link to this contribution)
We need to define what we mean by ““forced””, because there is a distinction between ““arranged”” an...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c258GC (Link to this contribution)
Even my mother would not claim that I was a family lawyer. Therefore, what I am about to say will be...
Baroness Verma | 691 c265GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank noble Lords for their responses. I am grateful to the Minister for her response. The noble L...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c267GC (Link to this contribution)
I have a couple of comments on the concerns raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Verma. Given that it ...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c264GC (Link to this contribution)
I was alluding more to the minors who have been taken abroad. In this country, such an event is a cr...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c262GC (Link to this contribution)
They would be the normal criteria. I shall inform the noble Lord if there is anything further to add...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c262GC (Link to this contribution)
In deference to the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, about ascertaining the wishes of the...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c260GC (Link to this contribution)
What kind of training will be given to the judiciary, bearing in mind that there are religious issue...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c274-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the Forced Marriage Unit would be more than happy to discuss it with my noble friend....
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c275GC (Link to this contribution)
I could not agree more.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c268GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to noble Lords. We have had an interesting debate. The noble Lord, Lord Lester, is rig...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c290GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 14:
14: In the Title, line 2, after ““consent”” insert ““and for protecting in...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c289GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 13:
13: After Clause 11, insert the following new Schedule—
““Consequential am...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c275-6GC (Link to this contribution)
An important part of Mr Blair’s legacy is the Constitutional Reform Act which makes it quite clear t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c276GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 6:
6: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
““Protection against fo...
Baroness Verma | 691 c278GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise to speak to Amendment No. 12, which would leave out paragraph 7 of the new schedule in Amendm...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c244GC (Link to this contribution)
I should like to make a few general comments. First, I was in the Chamber when the noble Lord, Lord ...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 691 c240GC (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the Minister will permit me to answer the noble Lord’s first question, if that is not in...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c241GC (Link to this contribution)
Oddly enough, I know a bit about this because I introduced another Private Member’s Bill, which some...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c231-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I oppose the Question whether Clause 1 shall stand part of the Bill. In doing so, I will speak to go...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c258GC (Link to this contribution)
I hope that noble Lords will indulge me just a few more words. ““Force”” was defined by the victim j...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c250GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 1:
1: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
““Protection against fo...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c263GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister referred to children. A case was reported in the papers last week in which an 11 year-o...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c264GC (Link to this contribution)
Yes, I can. I was in India last week, and forced marriage was one of the issues that I discussed wit...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c262GC (Link to this contribution)
I raise a point that has been mentioned to me regarding legal aid. Will the Minister amplify the leg...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c260GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister’s point about learning disabilities and so on reminded me of a question that I was aske...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I have not had discussions with the Disability Rights Commission. I take the point, and I will talk ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c262-3GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord is absolutely right. I was referring to three groups of people. The first were childr...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c258-9GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Verma, began by saying that these are probing amendments, and it is absolut...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c275GC (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend makes a good point and one which I always labour. We must not allow the notion to ex...
Baroness Verma | 691 c272GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her response, and the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, for his crucial question. We...
Baroness Verma | 691 c272GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 5:
5: After Clause 1, leave out lines 316...
Baroness Verma | 691 c270GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 4:
4: After Clause 1, leave out lines 281...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c269GC (Link to this contribution)
Thank you for the clarification.
Lord Sheikh | 691 c269GC (Link to this contribution)
Would the aggrieved party apply to the court without going to the police?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c269GC (Link to this contribution)
If the court hashad the undertaking given to it, the court would deal with it.
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c267-8GC (Link to this contribution)
Consistency is not necessarily always desirable, but sometimes it is. I do not think that the Offici...
Baroness Verma | 691 c282GC (Link to this contribution)
I merely want to ensure that the Bill has been scrutinised in every possible way and that, when it g...
Lord Sheikh | 691 c282GC (Link to this contribution)
I should like to add to what my noble friend Lady Verma has said. I read it only this morning so I h...
Baroness Verma | 691 c281GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 7 introduces consequential amendments that allow the Lord Chancellor to amend any Act ...
Baroness Verma | 691 c276GC (Link to this contribution)
I am again grateful to all noble Lords for their responses. I am grateful to the Minister for her re...
Baroness Verma | 691 c276GC (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 1, Amendment No. 5A:
5A: After Clause 1, line 324, at end ...
Baroness Uddin | 691 c278GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, welcome the fact that this provision is being extended to Northern Ireland. I want to raise ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c279GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I understand entirely that she wishes to explore why the Bill p...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c280GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 7:
7: After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause—
““Consequential amendm...
Lord Ahmed | 691 c243-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I had no intention of speaking this afternoon because I came in just to support all that the Ministe...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 691 c242GC (Link to this contribution)
I have been looking at the proposed new section on guidance and the provision that persons exercisin...
Lord Plant of Highfield | 691 c240GC (Link to this contribution)
I strongly supported this Bill at Second Reading. I had some worries about the meaning of ““coercion...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 691 c237-40GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the Government’s amendments, to which I have added my name. At Second Reading on 26 Januar...
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