Violent Crime Reduction Bill.Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1- 12 agreed to, Clauses 1,2,4,7,8, and 11 as amended. New clauses considered. Clause 13 under consideration. (Part 1 of 2)
Violent Crime Reduction Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 26 April 2006,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
681 c151-212 Session
2005-06Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Violent Crime Reduction Bill. Brought from Commons Explanatory notes HL Bill 41-EN also published
Tuesday, 15 November 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Tuesday, 15 November 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Waddington | 681 c155 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure I am not alone in being disappointed that the Statement made by the Home Secretary in anot...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c154-5 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, has done the Committee a singular service in pointing out two probl...
Show all contributions (85)
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c157-8 (Link to this contribution)
The fundamental problem with ASBOs and this new drinking banning order is that they are sought as ci...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c155-7 (Link to this contribution)
Before I turn to the content of the amendments, I want to record my thanks to the noble Baroness for...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c158-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 2:"Page 1, line 10, leave out ““or disorderly””"
The noble Lord said: Amendment...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c158 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, for his answer, even though it did not take us very mu...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c152-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 8, leave out ““described”” and insert ““specified””"
The noble ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c151-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lady Scotland of Asthal, I beg to move that the House do now ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c193 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 21 to 23:"Page 4, line 7, leave out from ““to”” to end of line 8 and insert ““...
Lord Haskel | 681 c193 (Link to this contribution)
I have to tell the Committee that if Amendment No. 25 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 26.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c193 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 25:"Page 5, line 39, leave out subsection (2)."
On Question, amendment agreed t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c193-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 27 to 29:"Page 6, line 11, leave out from ““to”” to end of line 12 and insert ...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c194 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 30:"Page 7, line 2, at end insert—"
““( ) Where the court makes an order under...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c194-5 (Link to this contribution)
: I have indicated that I oppose Clause 8. At this stage, I should like to hear the reasons for requ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c195 (Link to this contribution)
The court can, of course, make an interim drinking banning order if it thinks it necessary to take i...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c195 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. I shall need to look carefully at his reply in the context of the pro...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c195-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 31:"Page 7, line 3, leave out subsection (4) and insert—"
““(4) Permission o...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c196 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely support Amendment No. 31. It concerns the same problem with the interim orders to which I...
Lord Borrie | 681 c185-6 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, concentrated his remarks on the adverse effects, as he saw ...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 681 c186 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that the Bill is about naming and shaming. We should look for some consistency of app...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c184-5 (Link to this contribution)
I will speak in support of Amendment No. 15 on the basis that I take it as a probing amendment to ex...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c189-90 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 17:"Page 2, line 37, leave out ““relevant”” and insert ““other””"
The noble Lor...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c190 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 18:"Page 2, line 45, at end insert—"
““(6) Nothing in this section affects t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c186-8 (Link to this contribution)
These amendments have given rise to a useful short debate on the two issues to which they relate: th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c188-9 (Link to this contribution)
Across the whole breadth of the criminal law, it is a matter of public policy which is agreed to by ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c192-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister because I appreciate that he is trying to take the matter forward. I a...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c190-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 19:"Page 3, line 10, leave out subsection (3)."
The noble Baroness said: The in...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c168-73 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 8:"Page 2, line 18, leave out subsections (5) and (6)."
The noble Lord said: Th...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c178-80 (Link to this contribution)
As ever, the noble Baroness has been persuasive and assiduous in her contribution and I am grateful ...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 681 c180 (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Baroness responds, may I just say that I, too, had a briefing from Alcohol Concern ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c168 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for extending that invitation. As I understand it, the amendment in ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c168 (Link to this contribution)
In his earlier remarks, the noble Lord was not clear whether the court would have a duty to consider...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c180-1 (Link to this contribution)
We on these Benches also welcome this addition to the Bill, which we think gives it a great deal mor...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c181 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his response. I agree entirely with the spirit of what the noble L...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c182 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 9:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—"
““DURATION OF DRINKING BA...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c182-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 15:"Page 2, line 32, leave out ““16”” and insert ““18””"
The noble Lord said: A...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c162 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 6:"Page 2, line 17, at end insert—"
““( ) from having access to or contact wit...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c163-4 (Link to this contribution)
As I explained earlier, Clause 1 introduces a new civil order, a drinking banning order, which is av...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c160-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to both noble Lords for their attention to this part of the Bill. I shall turn first t...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c161-2 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has just pointed out that in previous legislation the phrase ““crime and disorder”” has...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c159-60 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to speak to Amendment No. 49 in this group. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thom...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c167-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his response. However, he appeared to be describing a parallel ser...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c166 (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendment, to which my noble friend Lady Anelay of St Johns has added her name. It wou...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c166-7 (Link to this contribution)
I hear what the noble Viscount says and should perhaps say at the outset that I am going to disappoi...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c164 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for that comprehensive explanation. We shall of course be examining th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c164-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 7:"Page 2, line 17, at end insert—"
““(4A) Before making a drinking banning or...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c206-8 (Link to this contribution)
I agree that it is useful to debate this area, which I readily accept could be considered by some as...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c206 (Link to this contribution)
This is indeed an important clause. As the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, points out, the crea...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 54 to 56:"Page 9, line 43, leave out from ““damage”” to end of line 44.""Page ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c204-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 57:"Page 10, line 9, at end insert—"
( ) No regulations shall be made unde...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c205 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 60:"Page 10, line 12, leave out ““and ““relevant persons””””"
On Question, amen...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c205-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 61:"Page 10, line 17, after first ““authority”” insert ““or local authorities””"...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
It may well be.
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
With that encouraging remark from the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, b...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 48:"Page 9, line 13, at end insert—""““““approved course”” means a course approv...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 50 to 52:"Page 9, line 22, at end insert—""““““proper officer””—"
(a) in r...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c208 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, from which I take two particular points. First, as I un...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c210 (Link to this contribution)
In one respect I am grateful to the noble Lord because he recognises that we have the same objective...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 681 c212 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving this Motion, I suggest that the Comm...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c209 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 63:"Page 10, line 24, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall””"
The noble Barones...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c209-10 (Link to this contribution)
I recognise that the amendment would strengthen the wording in Clause 12 and have the effect of requ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c208 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot concede the principle of a cap, although I recognise the importance of the issue. I want to...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c208-9 (Link to this contribution)
I think that that nervousness will remain after the noble Lord’s last reply. I wonder whether he and...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c197 (Link to this contribution)
I look forward to receiving and studying them with anticipation. In the meantime, I beg leave to wit...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c197 (Link to this contribution)
They are on course to become a collector’s item.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c198-9 (Link to this contribution)
: The consequence is clearly that interim banning orders are there to ensure that action can be take...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c197-8 (Link to this contribution)
This gives me an opportunity to reply to what the Minister said earlier. His reply to the amendment ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c196 (Link to this contribution)
The amendment would replace Clause 8(4). That provides that provision for the making or hearing of a...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c196 (Link to this contribution)
I shall consider carefully what the Minister says. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw the amen...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c196 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 32:"Page 7, line 8, leave out ““justices’ clerk”” and insert ““proper officer””"...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c196-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 33:"Page 7, line 27, at end insert—"
““( ) The Secretary of State must iss...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c197 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Viscount for setting out his concerns. I agree with him: it would be wron...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c197 (Link to this contribution)
These guidance notes are gathering increasing numbers of treasures; I look forward to reading them.
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c204 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that reply. Is this a case for the guidance document?
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c203-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Viscount for addressing his amendment in the way that he has and particul...
Viscount Bridgeman | 681 c202-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 47:"Page 9, line 13, at end insert ““and"
( ) the senior officer of any mi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c199 (Link to this contribution)
I shall certainly consider the noble Lord’s point, which is a fair one, and I shall reflect further ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c199-200 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 36:"Page 8, line 42, leave out subsection (11) and insert—"
““(11) The Secre...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c199 (Link to this contribution)
I think I understood the Minister to say that the order does not take effect until the individual kn...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c200-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 37:"After Clause 10, insert the following new clause—"
““APPROVED COURSES
If a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c200 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 26 would require any order made by the Secretary of State under Clause 10(5) to be mad...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 681 c200 (Link to this contribution)
We now have no idea who could be the subject of an order by the Secretary of State to bring 16 to 18...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c191-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her amendment. Whether what I say will actually fully answer...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 681 c173-8 (Link to this contribution)
At this stage, I would like to speak to the amendments grouped with the government amendments, which...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 681 c201-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 42:"After Clause 10, insert the following new clause—"
““CERTIFICATES OF COMPL...
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