UK Parliament / Open data

Identity Cards Bill 2005-06

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 12 December 2005, in the House of Lords.
Identity Cards Bill. Lords Committee stage fourth day. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clauses 4 to 7 agreed to. New clause under consideration. (Part 2 of 2 records).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

676 c1048-1108 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Identity Cards Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 28-EN also published.
Wednesday, 19 October 2005
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl of Northesk | 676 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Baroness comment on the observation that I made about the ministerial decision made l...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Nothing in the data that I have would indicate that is the case. The noble Lord will know that we ha...

Show all contributions (116)
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 676 c1103 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is very gracious but all I and the House need her to do is to let us know whether...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1102-3 (Link to this contribution) I may have turned into a pumpkin a long time ago. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay,...
Earl of Northesk | 676 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I also support the amendment. Notwithstanding the comments of my noble friend Lord Caithness, I do w...
Earl of Caithness | 676 c1101-2 (Link to this contribution) I too support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lady Anelay. I do so from a different angle. I ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1102 (Link to this contribution) First, I am very conscious that it is now midnight and therefore—
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1105 (Link to this contribution) That is not right. The commitment was for minimum standards. If—which is not admitted—any country ch...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1108 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1106-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness and will of course consider her answers very carefully between n...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept the amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, rightly moved it to enable me to exp...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Earl that it was not the intention of the Home Office or my right honourable frie...
Earl of Caithness | 676 c1105-6 (Link to this contribution) I am very disappointed by the noble Baroness’s reply. She hid behind words in a manner that is not u...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 676 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendment. I, too, contributed to the debate at Second Reading last week...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 676 c1090-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 137:"Page 7, line 7, at end insert—" ““(   )   The Secretary of State, before ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1093-4 (Link to this contribution) My noble friends Lady Turner and Lord Lea have identified an issue of concern. I fully understand wh...
Lord Crickhowell | 676 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has raised an important issue. I am only slightly put off by the horrid word ““regula...
Earl of Northesk | 676 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 134:"Page 6, line 20, at end insert ““; and" (   )   an appropriate review of ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1088 (Link to this contribution) : I am grateful for those exchanges and I shall think on it. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I would like to identify myself with this extremely sensible suggestion. It would be a good prelude ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my noble friend’s amendment. Of course, he will be aware that I would rather an order did ...
Earl of Northesk | 676 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) As ever, I am grateful to the Minister for her reply, although I am a little confused by it. She tal...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I understand the purport of the amendment. Of course, we shall want to listen to the views of the na...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 676 c1099-101 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment and can perhaps cast a little light on the questions put by my noble friend ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 138A:"Before Clause 8, insert the following new clause—" ““PARLIAMENTARY CONTR...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 676 c1098 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that response, but it does not really answer my main concern because it ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1096 (Link to this contribution) What does the noble Baroness mean at the start of her amendment by,"““apart from the provisions of s...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 676 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 138:"After Clause 7, insert the following new clause—" ““REGISTRATION: VOLUNTA...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 676 c1094-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part to assert that this is an important question. M...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome the amendments although it would be fair to say that we have gone over quite a lot o...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1096-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has done the Committee a service in bringing forward amendments which are in thei...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 676 c1096 (Link to this contribution) My recollection is that these amendments are specifically directed to certain individuals who would ...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 676 c1081 (Link to this contribution) What the Minister describes relates to the means by which the punishment can be enforced; it does no...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1081 (Link to this contribution) Surely the public are readier to accept a punishment for a person who intentionally fails to carry o...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1081-3 (Link to this contribution) I know that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has not had an opportunity to look at the draft...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 676 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. She makes a good point about a civil penalt...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1084 (Link to this contribution) Since I hope it is on the same point, I shall just answer the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. I read it out,...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 676 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for what she has said, but we are still in unfinished busin...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord knows that Article 6 does not require a particular standard of proof. As ...
Lord Lucas | 676 c1084 (Link to this contribution) I am perturbed by this Government’s proposal that we should adopt a ““Shoot first and ask questions ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I was proposing to move this amendment in about 60 seconds because the issue is simple. We think tha...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his rapid introduction because I think that we went over a lot o...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1085 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 124:"Page 5, line 44, leave out ““£2,500”” and insert ““£100””" The noble Lord ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1085-6 (Link to this contribution) I invite the noble Lord to consider withdrawing this amendment as there is a great danger that we wi...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I am immensely grateful for the many helpful contributions to this part of the evening’s entertainme...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for her comments. Although I am not familiar with ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I was doing my best not to intervene on this group of amendments, but it would be helpful if the Min...
Lord Lucas | 676 c1087 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but £750 for not turning up to an interview compared with £100 for being eight months late in f...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, but I am disappointed that he did not at least refer to the idea th...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1087 (Link to this contribution) That was why I quoted the code. The code is a draft so in a sense this is a consultation, but perhap...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1069 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the noble Lord was in his place when we were talking about how the scheme woul...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1069-70 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain how identity cards will help to catch terrorists if carrying them is not co...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1072 (Link to this contribution) I never like to disappoint the noble Baroness, and I shall not disappoint her tonight. I am of cours...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1072 (Link to this contribution) That argument was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, among others and, when I was re...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) I certainly understand that. I will be as brief as I can, because I took time opening the debate wh...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1073 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 121:"Page 5, line 39, at beginning insert ““intentionally””" The noble Lord sai...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1073-5 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend talks of the importance of hearsay evidence. But here we have another example of tha...
Baroness Seccombe | 676 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) These amendments raise the issue of the level of fault necessary to fall foul of the civil penalty r...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 676 c1076-7 (Link to this contribution) This is a fairly simple point. The penalty is imposed by the Crown. I regard it—and it is generally ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) I entirely support everything that has been said, and I will not repeat it. One has to think of the ...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with everything that has been said. The real person who will suffer from this is the person ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 676 c1077 (Link to this contribution) I support the arguments put forward by my noble friend Lady Seccombe, my noble and learned friend Lo...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) If the noble and learned Lord is asking whether it could be described as the noble Lord, Lord Philli...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a penalty. Both the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gr...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1080 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way until I have finished answering the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1080 (Link to this contribution) I know that I do not have to say what I am about to say, and that she appreciates it, but I say it f...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 676 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way as it is getting rather late, but if he wants to make party po...
Lord Crickhowell | 676 c1067 (Link to this contribution) If it is so essential to have the legislation now, why is the time not ripe? What makes the time rip...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) Orwellian they are not. Perhaps we may look at some of the issues that have been raised. I agree wit...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1068 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. If for whatever reason the roll-out proves a dis...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a matter of implementation. The noble Lord knows that the changes we have to bring in, not onl...
Lord Northbrook | 676 c1069 (Link to this contribution) If the passports are to be adjusted to a suitable system, why cannot everyone trade in their passpor...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1068-9 (Link to this contribution) As a result of our delaying the full implementation to super-affirmative procedure, it is always ope...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1065-6 (Link to this contribution) Why are Clauses 6 and 7 in the Bill? A sensible and, dare I say, honest government who were introduc...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1051-2 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to what the noble Lord and the noble Baroness said, and I hope that I will be a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1049 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Lord’s brevity. We need to have some flexibility in circumstances where ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1049 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister consider the matter further and write to me on it? I appreciate that it may be sen...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1049 (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 155A and 172 in this group are tabled in my name. Amendment No. 155A relates to Clau...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1049-50 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 114:"Page 5, line 23, after ““information ”” insert ““within Schedule 1””" The ...
Baroness Seccombe | 676 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) I speak in support of those amendments to which we have put our names. They are intended to close do...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1049 (Link to this contribution) I think that, in view of what the noble Baroness said, maybe it would be best if I respond in writin...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1049 (Link to this contribution) I am happy then to beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1054 (Link to this contribution) I have tabled three amendments in the same group, Amendments Nos. 117, 159 and 174. The noble Barone...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1054-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord makes one error. He should not assume that as the hour grows late, we become more com...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1056-7 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I rather felt that what he said related more to the noble Baroness’...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1057 (Link to this contribution) I have to resist the amendment. I made the point about comparable registrations such as births, deat...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 676 c1057 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has already referred to births, deaths and marriages. As I reminded him earlier, his ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1057 (Link to this contribution) I agreed, although as I made clear earlier, we have not fixed on a definite number of centres. We ha...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) In opening, I said that these were probing amendments and that I would refer back to the RNIB before...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1052-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 115:"Page 5, line 24, at end insert—" ““(5A)   Any individual who is required ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1064-5 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly support the amendment, which the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, moved with great luci...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 676 c1062 (Link to this contribution) While I agree with everything that my noble friend Lady Anelay has just said about this aspect of wh...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I was speaking to Amendment No. 118 in the rest of that group. I hope that that agrees with what the...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1058-61 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 117A:"Page 5, line 29, leave out subsection (1)." The noble Baroness said: Amen...
Lord Geddes | 676 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) It may be for the assistance of the Committee if I reiterate that the amendment presently under cons...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1058 (Link to this contribution) This just goes to show that there will be some constructive discussions between Committee and Report...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1058 (Link to this contribution) The Minister referred to what I said about a means test. For example, one might think of people on s...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I want to make one further point. I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, said that it would b...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1070-2 (Link to this contribution) I have never said that it would be necessary to carry identity cards. That has consistently been dis...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 676 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Very briefly, as it is very late, will the noble Baroness confirm that the Commission and the Europe...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1103-5 (Link to this contribution) I probably agree with quite a lot of the interpretation and the nuances. Then we would have to discu...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1096 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I think Clause 6 is wider than she realises. She would not acce...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I confess to being a little surprised by the thrust of some of the proposals. In effect, the noble L...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 676 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister dispute that this penalty is a punishment?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 676 c1048-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 112:"Page 5, line 20, leave out ““, and other biometric information about himsel...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1052 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation, which I find convincing. I will obviously look a...
Lord Crickhowell | 676 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask a question. I have listened with great interest to the exchange that we have had on ve...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c1066 (Link to this contribution) That is interesting speculation. I will hire a committee room tomorrow and invite the noble Lord to ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c1057 (Link to this contribution) I think that there are 300 or 400 centres.
Lord Crickhowell | 676 c1062-4 (Link to this contribution) After that devastating intervention, no doubt this clause will be called the ““George Orwell clause”...

Subjects

Disability
Disclosure of information
Data protection
Codes of practice
Biometrics
Costs
Convictions
Delegated legislation
Fraud
EU countries
Fees and charges
Fingerprints
Immigration
EU law
Identity cards
Documents
Fines
Eyes
Personal records
Photographs
National identity register
Proof of identity
Passports
Registration

Legislation

Identity Cards Bill 2005-06

Link

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