Identity Cards Bill

I know that I do not have to say what I am about to say, and that she appreciates it, but I say it for the record. There is an enormous distinction between procedure of due process that has in it a presumption of innocence and which requires the prosecution to prove its case—that is, a criminal charge—and the system that the Minister proposes, whereby you are absolutely liable. Intention does not come into it under this scheme; you are liable for a penalty, and you cannot try to excuse yourself before a court. There is all the difference in the world between the civil and criminal approach. As the noble and learned Lord said, when penalties are as high as £2,500 or £1,500, it bears no relation at all to any amount by which the state suffers by reason of a person failing to fill in a form. That has to be a punishment for failing to fill in a form and send it off. It is not a civil penalty that has any connection at all with any loss to the state.