UK Parliament / Open data

Commons Bill [HL] 2005-06

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 30 November 2005, in the House of Lords.
Commons Bill [HL]. Lords Report stage second day. Bill printed as amended (HL Bill 49).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

676 c233-91 

Session

2005-06

Department

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Commons Bill (HL) . As amended in Grand Committee (HL)
Monday, 14 November 2005
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Bach | 676 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 53 and 54:"Page 22, line 30, after ““apply”” insert ““(generally)””""Page 22, ...
Lord Bach | 676 c264 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51:"Page 22, line 19, leave out paragraph (e)." On Question, amendment agreed t...

Show all contributions (120)
Lord Bach | 676 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken. Perhaps I may deal first with Amendment No. ...
Lord Greaves | 676 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have one or two questions about government Amendments Nos. 51 and 82. I do not understan...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c262 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we look on many of the amendments as extremely helpful. I agree with the noble Duke about ...
Earl Peel | 676 c266 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendments—particularly Amendment No. 57. My noble friend talk...
Lord Bach | 676 c265 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am so sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness but we thought that Amendment No. 55 had bee...
Baroness Byford | 676 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 56:"Page 23, line 21, leave out subsection (6)." The noble Baroness said: My go...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c265 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 55:"Page 22, line 36, leave out ““arising””" The noble Baroness said: This is a...
Baroness Byford | 676 c265 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two amendments in this group. Although I did not object to the Government removing ...
Baroness Byford | 676 c267 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for that clarification. I thank the Minister and am grateful to my noble fri...
Lord Bach | 676 c267 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it applies in the past, present and future.
Lord Greaves | 676 c267-70 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 57A:"Page 24, line 12, at end insert—" ““(   )   The appropriate national auth...
Baroness Byford | 676 c267 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister—in particular, for his response to our Amendment No. 57...
Lord Bach | 676 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment No. 56 would remove the provisions that enable a national authority to consider ...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c270 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, is certainly bolder than we have been in trying to interpret...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c270 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we agree with the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. They display his long...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c270-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I can begin by endorsing the tribute made by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, to the l...
Lord Greaves | 676 c272 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Baroness sits down, I heard her say that if a local authority receives a ...
Lord Bach | 676 c248 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Duke poses an interesting question. He may not have thought of it before; I cert...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c248 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course we are disappointed by the Minister’s response. What he said raised another ques...
Lord Bach | 676 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as we stated during the debate in Committee when we discussed this issue, an association m...
Earl Peel | 676 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wholeheartedly support my noble friend’s amendments and I shall address my brief remarks...
Lord Jopling | 676 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to add a few words to those of my two noble friends. I agree with everything...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c248 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 38 [Prohib...
Baroness Byford | 676 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46:"Page 21, line 29, after first ““or”” insert ““materially””" The noble Baron...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to those who have spoken in this short debate. I agree with my noble friend ...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 676 c251 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a certain sympathy with what the noble Earl, Lord Peel, and the noble Baroness, Lad...
Lord Greaves | 676 c251-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving her amendment the noble Baroness said that in 1925 there were no rights of acces...
Lord Bach | 676 c254-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank noble Lords for an interesting debate on Part 3, which is an important part of the...
Earl of Caithness | 676 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, notwithstanding my personal views about statutory commons associations but putting on my s...
Lord Bach | 676 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for that.
Earl Peel | 676 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on a point of clarification, I fully understand the point that the Minister made about the...
Baroness Byford | 676 c257 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful for the many contributions to this important debate. My noble friend Lo...
Lord Bach | 676 c257 (Link to this contribution) Not deregulation, my Lords, but better regulation.
Baroness Byford | 676 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, deregulation would be even better than better regulation, but that is another matter. I ha...
Lord Bach | 676 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49:"Page 22, line 6, at end insert—" ““(c)   land not falling within paragraph...
Lord Boston of Faversham | 676 c261 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in view of the groupings and the fact that the Minister has spoken to Amendment No. 51 I m...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to our two amendments grouped with Amendment No. 49. Our Amendment No. 50 is...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c236-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I begin by speaking to Amendment No. 38. I start by making plain that it is not necessary,...
Lord Bach | 676 c241 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that question. Indeed, they will have the right to acq...
Lord Jopling | 676 c241 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord a question on a point that puzzles me. Under Clause 32(2)...
Lord Bach | 676 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment would ensure that any fees required to be paid to a commons association in c...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c240 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I certainly agree with the general thrust of the amendment. Clearly, ““reasonable”” is a r...
Baroness Byford | 676 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40:"Page 18, line 28, after ““of”” insert ““reasonable””" The noble Baroness sa...
Lord Tyler | 676 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot pretend that I am not very disappointed by the noble Baroness’s response. I am di...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my understanding is that the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, is correct. I hope that I will be...
Lord Inglewood | 676 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to put a point to the noble Baroness for clarification. In the event of some...
Earl Peel | 676 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand that explanation, but under the Bill as it stands the surplus rights of commo...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 676 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before my noble friend sits down, can he confirm that commons associations will have no ab...
Lord Bach | 676 c242 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am looking at Clause 32(2) as I answer my noble friend. There seems to be no reason why ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c246 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 42 to 44:"Page 20, line 22, after ““order”” insert ““under section 26””""Page ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c246 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, for his kind words and I welcome the support...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we see this as keeping a commons association on hold for 12 months. It is undoubtedly desi...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c246 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 45:"Page 21, line 15, at end insert ““to an adjacent commons association for a p...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41:"Page 20, line 19, at end insert—" ““(4)   A direction under subsection (3)...
Baroness Byford | 676 c242 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions. In Committee, we had a rather length...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c245 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment No. 41 is a very welcome response to our Grand Committee amendment. I thank the ...
Baroness Byford | 676 c236 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to both amendments. I have great sympathy with the amendment moved by the no...
Earl of Caithness | 676 c236 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support what my noble friend Lord Peel has said. The rights of the owner are in jeopardy...
Lord Tyler | 676 c233-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38:"Page 17, line 39, at end insert—" ““(   )   preparing management plans to ...
Lord Bach | 676 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report. Moved, That the Bill be ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 676 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to my noble friend’s Amendment No. 38. I anticipate that the Minister may sa...
Earl Peel | 676 c235 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as my Amendment No. 39 is grouped with Amendment No. 38, perhaps I may take the opportunit...
Lord Bach | 676 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was hoping that the noble Lord would do that. I have made our point on why we do not thi...
Earl Peel | 676 c279 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I intervene briefly to say that the Minister has given me much the answer that I hoped tha...
Lord Bach | 676 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have now had translated the word that I was looking at. The fenced sections tend to be a...
Lord Tyler | 676 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can invite the Minister to write to me.
Lord Bach | 676 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) He is, my Lords, but he obviously knows Dartmoor better than I do—and I will be asking why that Dart...
Lord Tyler | 676 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may give the noble Lord an opportunity to look again at his notes by intervening...
Lord Bach | 676 c277 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will come back to that point. I absolutely stand corrected about the West Country. I tho...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c279 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we will read carefully what the Minister said about our amendment on animal welfare. It se...
Lord Bach | 676 c279 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have finished what I wanted to say about Amendment No. 59.
Lord Bach | 676 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58:"Page 24, line 37, leave out from second ““to”” to end of line 6 on page 25 a...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c274 (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 58, Amendment No. 59: Line 23, at end insert— ““(f)   the...
Earl Peel | 676 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment No. 60, which I tabled, is grouped with these amendments, so I shall speak to it...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we welcome the amendments to Clause 43. In Committee, we requested that more purposes be a...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c272 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, if the local authority unreasonably fails to act. The noble Lord’s amendment focuses ...
Lord Greaves | 676 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am interested in that reply. I assume the Minister is saying that the local authority mu...
Lord Boston of Faversham | 676 c273 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in calling Amendment No. 58, I must point out that if it is agreed to I cannot call Amendm...
Lord Bach | 676 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my only fear in replying is that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, will think that I am picking ...
Lord Tyler | 676 c276 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support Amendment No. 59, which was moved by my noble friend Lord Livsey of Talgarth. In...
Lord Tyler | 676 c277 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister may know that most of the highways across Dartmoor are already fenced to prev...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74B:"Page 30, line 35, at end insert—""““““access”” means the rights of the publ...
Lord Greaves | 676 c286 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 74A:"After Clause 53, insert the following n...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c286 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 72 to 73:"Page 28, line 24, leave out ““, or in the same session as,””""Page 2...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c288 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister has given a detailed reply. I understand the different circumstances in diffe...
Lord Bach | 676 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment would introduce a definition of the word ““access”” by reference to a numbe...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c287 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand that the noble Lord is not into point scoring, but I read in the Bill that th...
Lord Bach | 676 c287 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is likely to be the Commons Act 2006.
Baroness Byford | 676 c290 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his comments on Amendment No. 79, which is grouped with ...
Lord Bach | 676 c288-90 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75:"Page 32, line 21, after ““(3)”” insert ““, (3A)””" The noble Lord said: My ...
Lord Bach | 676 c290 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Question is put, I thank noble Lords for their kind comments about my noble fri...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c290 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank both Ministers for how they have taken the Bill through so far. We have won some, ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c291 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 81 and 82:"Page 38, line 24, at end insert—" ““(c)   land not falling within...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 76 to 78:"Page 32, line 30, at end insert—" ““(3A)   The circumstances in th...
Lord Greaves | 676 c290 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before my noble friend rises to echo those comments, perhaps I may add my support to them ...
Baroness Byford | 676 c282 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s comment concerning my intervention. One of the problems a...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c282 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot cite exactly which law and Acts confer those powers. In local government, it is o...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 676 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to clarify the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Byford. The Minister said t...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c283 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would need notice of that question because of the issue of ownership of land and when it...
Lord Greaves | 676 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61E:"Page 25, line 37, at end insert—" ““(   )   The appropriate national auth...
Baroness Byford | 676 c281 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise briefly to thank the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for raising this issue, which we deb...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for a moment I thought that we had strayed into an Unstarred Question, when we got into br...
Lord Greaves | 676 c282 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is the Minister saying that local authorities already have the power that I seek to give t...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c279 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61:"Page 25, line 11, after ““Act”” insert ““passed before this Act””" The nobl...
Baroness Byford | 676 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the government response to the amendments that we moved ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 63 to 71:"Page 26, line 9, leave out paragraph (c) and insert—" ““(c)   the ...
Lord Rotherwick | 676 c285 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome the amendments that are included in this group that have been tabled in response...
Lord Tyler | 676 c285 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to add my congratulations to the ministerial team. Earlier I failed to refer to the...
Duke of Montrose | 676 c284 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we welcome those government amendments. In particular, we are glad to see the end of the p...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c284-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we too welcome these amendments. It is nice to be able to agree so wholeheartedly with wha...
Lord Greaves | 676 c283-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was about to comment that we are perhaps fortunate that the Minister is the Minister and...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c284 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62:"Page 26, line 2, leave out ““any relevant”” and insert ““the appropriate nat...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 676 c283 (Link to this contribution) They might have, my Lords. A number of them have county farm estates and other landholdings and beca...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c283 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, adopting a different hat, we are on Report.
Duke of Montrose | 676 c283 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it seems to me that before you can enter an agricultural environment scheme you have to ha...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 676 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we also welcome the amendment. Clause 35 is still pretty draconian, but this softens thing...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 676 c286 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74:"Page 28, line 33, after ““Act”” insert ““passed before this Act””" On Quest...

Subjects

Complaints
Access
Animal welfare
Agriculture
Bankruptcy
Archaeology
Common land
Fees and charges
Land use
Local government
Planning permission
Livestock
Management
New Forest
Registration
Telecommunications
Tenants
Walls and fences
Commons councils
Village greens

Legislation

Commons Bill (HL) 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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