Commons Bill [HL]

My Lords, notwithstanding my personal views about statutory commons associations but putting on my surveyor hat, if we are to have them they need to work as practically and sensibly as possible. That is what we are aiming for in this part of the Bill. As my noble friend Lord Peel said, this is the crux of how the legislation will work. We are living in an increasingly litigious society. Not so long ago, I came out of hospital and was approached by a man who I stopped to talk to and he said, ““You know you can sue if any of these things have happened””. I thought what a sad world we had come to if such people stand outside the gates of hospitals. There are extremists at every end of the pendulum. When I was responsible for the countryside as a Minister, I remember saying to a member of the Ramblers Association, ““You would not mind one bit if the countryside was completely concreted over as long as you had a full right of access to every single bit of it””. I can see this matter being a particularly troublesome area. An owner or the commons association could do something that is necessary for the good management of the common, which is probably in line with a management agreement. That could lead to frivolous litigious action, which would be very good for the Minister’s previous profession who would rub their hands at the thought of getting more fees. Sadly, I can see this matter going to those sorts of extremes and surely that is exactly what we need to avoid. Therefore, I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lady Byford to insert ““materially””. If the Minister does not like ““materially””, he should consider the weight of opinion that has come from all sides of the House, including his own, on this issue. This part of the Bill is not yet right. I know that he would like to get it right and we would like to get it right. I am sure that he will want to reconsider to see how the clause can be adjusted so that we do not have problems in the future.