UK Parliament / Open data

Illegal Migration Bill

Lords committee stage fourth day. Clauses 29 to 36 agreed to. Clause 37, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 38 to 48 agreed to. New clause agreed to. Clauses 49 and 50 agreed to. Clauses 51 and 52, as amended, agreed to. Clause 53 agreed to. Clauses 54 and 55, as amended, agreed to. Clause 56 agreed to. Clause 57, as amended, agreed to. (Part 2 of 2).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

830 cc1742-1826 

Session

2022-23

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Illegal Migration Bill 2022-23. Brought from the Commons.
Thursday, 27 April 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Illegal Migration Bill
Monday, 12 June 2023
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2023-0630
Monday, 3 July 2023
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Ludford | 830 c1742 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

98ZA: Clause 29, page 36, line 13, at end insert “or anothe...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1742-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am going to do two things that the Government Chief Whip does not like. First, I am g...


Show all contributions (118)
Lord Moylan | 830 cc1744-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to a number of amendments in this group in my name; namely, Amendments ...

Baroness Brinton | 830 cc1748-1750 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tabled Amendment 98I on the status of Hong Kongers with British national (overse...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 cc1750-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak in support of the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan...

Bishop of Durham | 830 cc1751-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, for tabling Amendment 98I, and I thank Amnest...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 830 c1752 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as noble Lords will see, my name is attached to the amendment from the noble Baroness, ...

Baroness Janke | 830 cc1752-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 95EA in the name of my noble friend Lady Ludford. The amendme...

Lord Paddick | 830 cc1753-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Ludford has fully explained our reasons why Clauses 29 to 36 shoul...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 830 c1754 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as we have just heard, Clauses 29 to 36 place a permanent bar on those who fall within ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1754-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. It has been particularly ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c1757 (Link to this contribution)

I have two short questions. First, how can a child be culpable? The whole point of the Bill, as I...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1757 (Link to this contribution)

On the first point, there is no suggestion that these measures impute culpability in the way that...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 c1757 (Link to this contribution)

It may be that I have not quite understood what the noble Lord is saying, but the noble Baroness,...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1757 (Link to this contribution)

The answer, which I will turn to in a moment, is that it was considered that greater clarity and ...

Lord Moylan | 830 c1758 (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend turns to that amendment, I am of course not a lawyer but really quite a si...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1758-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for that contribution. The position, as he outlined in his speech, is tha...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 830 c1759 (Link to this contribution)

I was just going to posit to the noble Lord that some of these people having to flee are aged 16 ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1759 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for raising that. In fact, I was just turning to that very issue.

<...
Baroness Brinton | 830 c1760 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for the Minister’s answer. One of the reasons why I wanted to lay this probing...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1760 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, clearly this needs to be looked into and I hear what the noble Baroness says. After the...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1760-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, our debate on this group has given me a new respect for nationality law, which is at le...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1762 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

99: Clause 37, page 40, line 30, leave out “or citi...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1762-4 (Link to this contribution)

I warned your Lordships that I would keep popping up this evening, but I am glad to say that the ...

Lord Etherton | 830 cc1764-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to a number of amendments in my name in this group: Amendments 100, 102, 1...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 cc1766-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is an enormous pleasure to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton. I decla...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 cc1767-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have three amendments in this group: Amendments 101, 110 and 113. Two of these amendm...

Lord Cashman | 830 cc1768-1770 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly to the amendments in this group. In so doing, I refer your Lordshi...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 cc1770-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak in support of both my noble and learned friends, who sit to my right in th...

Lord Paddick | 830 c1771 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been an interesting, if not bewildering, debate—at least to us non-lawyers. My...

Lord Coaker | 830 cc1771-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this was an interesting debate. I thought I was with lawyers, but then, listening to th...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1772-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 37 provides for two types of suspensive claims, which have the effect of suspend...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 830 c1773 (Link to this contribution)

A great deal of research has gone into the risks associated with countries where the law still cr...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1773-4 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness makes an entirely fair point. In those cases, of course, it would be an immine...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c1774 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for setting out an explanation of the word “compelling”. He used ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1774-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that suggestion from the noble and learned Lord. If I may, I will take a moment...

Lord Etherton | 830 c1775 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, there were two specific questions that I raised at the end of what...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1775-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble and learned Lord for repeating those questions. He is entirely right that I sho...

Lord Etherton | 830 c1776 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to come back on this, but it is important. The Government must give some guidance to t...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1776 (Link to this contribution)

I can only repeat that the Supreme Court decision in HJ (Iran) and the other documents provided b...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1776-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if two noble and learned Lords and one learned with a small “l” noble Lord—if I may cal...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1777-9 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am sorry, it is me again. I am looking forward to the next group, when someone else will b...

Lord Paddick | 830 c1779 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Ludford has clearly explained why Clauses 43 to 51 should not stan...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 830 c1779 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, for explaining this really quite complex area...

Lord Bellamy | 830 cc1779-1781 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clauses 43 to 51 are an essential part of the scheme of the Bill, just like Clause 54 o...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 830 c1781 (Link to this contribution)

These very short timescales are no doubt part of the deterrent effect which the Government are se...

Lord Bellamy | 830 cc1781-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Government have been working closely with the senior judiciary to ensure that we ha...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c1782 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his responses. I am not really persuaded by his answer on Clause 49: tha...

Lord Bellamy | 830 c1782 (Link to this contribution)

I will happily write to the noble Baroness. I thought I had covered it when I said that it was cr...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c1783 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise. I was clearly inattentive as I was trying to look at the other groups that are comin...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1783-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

115A: After Clause 48, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1784 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

115B: Clause 51, page 53, line 35, at end insert—

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1785 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

115C: Clause 52, page 53, line 40, after “court” in...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c1785 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

116: Clause 52, page 54, line 1, at beginning insert “P...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 cc1785-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this may be the graveyard shift, but I will do my best to keep the Committee awake for ...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1789-1790 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can be relatively brief. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, for introducin...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 c1790 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make a brief contribution on Clause 53. We cannot ask the Minister to comment on the im...

Lord Sandhurst | 830 cc1791-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 119 and to the overall challenge to Clause 53. To be absolut...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 cc1792-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, threw down a verbal gauntlet, so let me try to pi...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c1794 (Link to this contribution)

I beg the noble Lord’s indulgence in standing up and asking him a question. I was piqued by a twe...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 cc1794-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that short intervention. I am now not sure whether I am intervening on the nobl...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c1796 (Link to this contribution)

Before I give way, may I make one other short point? I respectfully suggest that state practice c...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 c1796 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I draw his attention to the current, as of today, UK Visas and I...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

I think that goes back to the point I was making a moment ago. With the greatest respect—I do not...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord. It strikes me, in reading this clause, that it proceeds on the b...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

On that, I entirely agree: the clause is very carefully drafted. The Government’s position—as I u...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

I think we really have to hear from the Minister, frankly. The clause does set out the various ob...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

In which case, I will give one final statement before I finish. On this we all agree—the answer t...

Lord Paddick | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

If I understand the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, correctly, he is saying that the solution is not Cl...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c1797 (Link to this contribution)

My point is that I am supporting Clause 53. It is not inconsistent to say that we will have Claus...

Lord Paddick | 830 c1798 (Link to this contribution)

What I am hearing from the noble Lords opposite is that if the Government ignored Rule 39 it woul...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 830 c1798 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think everybody is really waiting to hear what the Minister has to say about this. It...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1798-1800 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 52 underpins the suspensive claims and appeals process by prohibiting the courts...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 cc1800-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to all noble Lords who spoke in this debate—it was not that short—and even more gra...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1801 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

116A: Clause 52, page 54, line 1, after “court” ins...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1801 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

117A: Clause 52, page 54, line 7, after second “cou...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1802 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

119A: Clause 54, page 56, line 7, leave out from “s...

Bishop of Durham | 830 c1802 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

The Lord Bishop of Durham

121: Clause 55, page 56, line 21, leave out subsec...

Bishop of Durham | 830 cc1802-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 121 I shall speak to Amendments 122 and 126 in my name. I am gratef...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 cc1804-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 124 and 125 are in my name and they have the support of the noble Baroness, ...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 cc1807-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 123 and 140, following on the points made by the right rever...

Baroness Neuberger | 830 cc1809-1810 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and the noble Baroness, Lady Li...

Baroness Brinton | 830 cc1810-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham, the noble B...

Lord Coaker | 830 cc1811-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a very important group of amendments. I shall not speak particularly to my Amen...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1812-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as we have heard, these clauses and amendments take us on to the provisions regarding a...

Baroness Brinton | 830 c1813 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister referred to the figures increasing for disputed children, because the figures in 202...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1813-4 (Link to this contribution)

I do not recognise those statistics, but I will of course look at the Helen Bamber Foundation rep...

Lord Coaker | 830 c1814 (Link to this contribution)

Can I just pick up something before the Minister leaves this point? If I understood the noble Bar...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1814 (Link to this contribution)

They participate in the particular type of medical scan that is utilised. That is the practice ad...

Baroness Brinton | 830 c1814 (Link to this contribution)

Whether it is adopted by our European partners or not, Gillick competence is the key UK law that ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1814 (Link to this contribution)

The provisions in the Bill are clear, and, as I say, in due course draft regulations will be prov...

Lord Coaker | 830 c1814 (Link to this contribution)

It is quite astonishing to hear a Minister of the Crown say, from what I can understand, that a c...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

I fear that we are speaking at cross purposes. I certainly would not compel any child to particip...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

The whole point is that they are, in effect, being compelled. This point was made by the interim ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

It is difficult to debate these measures. As I say, in the event that the situation is advanced b...

Baroness Neuberger | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry but can the Minister explain how this can be acceptable when subjecting young people—c...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that I agree with the allegation that this is unethical because, as the noble Baron...

Baroness Brinton | 830 c1815 (Link to this contribution)

It may be that the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, has expertise that the Committee is not aware of but ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1816 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Baroness rightly says, now is not the moment to discuss this hypothetical but it is ...

Baroness Brinton | 830 c1816 (Link to this contribution)

Has the Minister had discussions with the GMC and social workers, for example?

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1816 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness now invites me to embark on a discussion that she just said she did not want t...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 c1816 (Link to this contribution)

What is the point of seeking advice if it is then ignored? While I am on my feet, because I was n...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1816-7 (Link to this contribution)

Of course we consider the advice provided by the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee and th...

Lord Paddick | 830 c1817 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister did not allow me to intervene earlier, so will he allow me to intervene now? In what...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1817 (Link to this contribution)

We have already canvassed these topics, but there are many ways for a decision-maker to take a re...

Bishop of Durham | 830 cc1817-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords for contributing to the debate and for interjecting during the Minister’s...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1818 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

123A: Clause 55, page 56, line 33, after “court” in...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c1819 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Murray of Blidworth

128: Clause 57, page 58, line 41, at end insert—

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 c1819 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

128A: Clause 57, page 59, leave out line 4

...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 cc1819-1821 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 128A is also being proposed by the JCHR. I thank my noble friend Lord Cashman...

Lord Hacking | 830 c1822 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise—when I get my papers in proper order—to support my noble friend Lady Lister of B...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 830 c1822 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sure we are all grateful for his sympathy. I am delighted to be here, but we would...

Lord Hacking | 830 cc1822-3 (Link to this contribution)

Well, my Lords, I do not know whether the noble Lord thought my speech about sympathy was repetit...

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc1823-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the proposition that Clause 57 should not stand part of the Bill. Befor...

Lord Coaker | 830 c1824 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be interested to hear what the Minister has to say to many of the questions rais...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc1824-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken: the noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Lud...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 c1826 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to those who have spoken, especially my noble friend Lord Hacking; he has...

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