UK Parliament / Open data

Illegal Migration Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 24 May 2023, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Murray of Blidworth. The answering member was Lord Coaker.
Lords committee stage first day. Clause 1 under consideration. (Part 1 of 2).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

830 cc873-924 

Session

2022-23

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Financial Services Bill. Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee (HL) thirty-fourth report.
Monday, 25 January 2021
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Illegal Migration Bill 2022-23. Brought from the Commons.
Thursday, 27 April 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2023-0371
Thursday, 18 May 2023
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Illegal Migration Bill. Constitution Committee sixteenth report.
Wednesday, 17 May 2023
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (6)
Illegal Migration Bill
Wednesday, 24 May 2023
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2023-0626
Monday, 3 July 2023
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c874 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hope of Craighead

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, at end insert—

“(z...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 cc874-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 1, 3 and 5. It is a privilege to open the Committee stage of...


Show all contributions (98)
Baroness Ludford | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to speak to Amendment 2—unless the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, wants to ...

Baroness Meacher | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with some trepidation, I want to comment on Amendments 1 and 5, tabled by my noble and ...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in fact, the noble Baroness makes my point. What I am really saying is that those who a...

Baroness Meacher | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not our job to ensure that the Bill does not come up against the convention?

Baroness Ludford | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to speak to Amendment 2, which is in my name and those of my noble friend ...

Lord Hacking | 830 c876 (Link to this contribution)

Did the noble Baroness refer to Amendment 32 just now?

Baroness Ludford | 830 cc876-9 (Link to this contribution)

No, I referred to Amendment 2, which is the second one in this group.

Before I move to huma...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 cc878-881 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 4 in this group, in my name and those of the noble Lords, Lo...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 cc881-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness. I support her Amendment 4 for the follow...

Viscount Hailsham | 830 cc882-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have only a very brief intervention to make, but I want to speak to Amendment 4. I ha...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 830 c883 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords—sorry, we have had quite a lot of Tories, have we not?

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate | 830 cc883-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, my Lords. I want to indicate that I think all of us in this Chamber wish, as the Gove...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 830 cc884-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhope. It was an excess of enthusiasm in coming ...

Bishop of Chelmsford | 830 cc885-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendments 4 and 84; I also have a great deal of sympathy for Amendment 148. ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 830 cc886-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 4 and draw attention to my entry in the register, with ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 830 c889 (Link to this contribution)

I would happily support all the amendments, although I would prefer Amendment 4, which I think ex...

Lord Horam | 830 cc889-890 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to comment on the speech made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelms...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 830 cc890-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I apologise for not having been able to participate in the Second Reading of the...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 830 cc891-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise that I did not get to speak at Second Reading. I misread the Order Paper an...

Viscount Hailsham | 830 c893 (Link to this contribution)

Is the noble Baroness really suggesting that this country should depart from treaty obligations w...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 830 cc893-4 (Link to this contribution)

Having no qualms is something that I would never do, but I am also suggesting that having qualms,...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c894 (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble Baroness like to remind the Committee which limb of the constitution takes respon...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 830 c894 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not think there are evil people involved in this and I have not gone down the mora...

Lord Balfe | 830 c894 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness will recall that we had a referendum to leave the European Union. Many of us o...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 830 cc894-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am coming to an end. I understand the noble Lord’s point and I am endeavouring to explain that ...

Lord Cashman | 830 c895 (Link to this contribution)

It is this side; an independent has just spoken.

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 830 c895 (Link to this contribution)

Speaking independently, I think it is this side, but I will give way to the noble Lord.

Lord Cashman | 830 cc895-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for giving way and therefore I will be brief. I am not a lawyer,...

Lord Cashman | 830 c896 (Link to this contribution)

It is a brilliant speech, which reminds us that what was done hundreds of years ago is still bein...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 830 cc896-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the personal and moving speech from the noble Lord, Lord Cashman...

Archbishop of Canterbury | 830 c897 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely accept, and everyone who has spoken so far has agreed, that we have to control migrati...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 830 cc897-9 (Link to this contribution)

The most reverend Primate is exactly right: we have failed to start the conversation across the c...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 830 c899 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I largely made at Second Reading all the points I would have wished to make in this deb...

Lord Hacking | 830 cc899-900 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 4 for all the reasons that almost every Member of the Committee has...

Lord Desai | 830 c900 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not a lawyer; I am an economist. When the most reverend Primate raised this questi...

Lord Sahota | 830 c901 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be very brief in speaking to the amendments in the names of my noble friend Lady...

Baroness Hamwee | 830 cc901-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, brought his copy of Hansard from Second Readi...

Lord Sandhurst | 830 cc902-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 2, 4, 84 and 148. I shall not speak to Amendments 1, 3 and 5...

Lord Hacking | 830 c903 (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord looked at the national statistics on immigration for 2022, he would see that th...

Lord Sandhurst | 830 c903 (Link to this contribution)

That may be so, but the numbers are on a rising plane, and it is not simply Albanians now, they a...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c903 (Link to this contribution)

I just ask the noble Lord about his point on Section 3 of the HRA, which he regards as disadvanta...

Lord Sandhurst | 830 c903 (Link to this contribution)

, I looked at Sir Peter Gross’s report yesterday and the night before to remind myself of what it...

Lord Etherton | 830 c905 (Link to this contribution)

I have a very short point to make. I was delighted to hear the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley...

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port | 830 c905 (Link to this contribution)

I feel a little intimidated to follow such an intervention. I am not a lawyer either, but I am a ...

Baroness Lawlor | 830 cc905-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I oppose Amendments 2, 4 and 148 in this group because they would subvert and obstruct ...

Lord Patten of Barnes | 830 cc906-7 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for not taking part in the Second Reading debate on this Bill, but I have made amends...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 cc907-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Patten, I have sat through all of this debate. I rise because...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 c908 (Link to this contribution)

I recall saying once in the Appellate Committee that the courts were not bound by the statement—i...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c908 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right; it has no legal effect. Can I put this another wa...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 c908 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord not agree that the Section 19(1)(b) statement on this Bill is very different ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c908 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is making a political point. It may be good politics or bad politics, but whether ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c908 (Link to this contribution)

With respect to the noble Lord, nobody is criticising the Minister for making the statement. The ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c909 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly not smoke and mirrors. The force of the noble Baroness’s point is, “If you can’t ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c909 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the former Minister and sure that he listened carefully to how Section 19 was in...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c909 (Link to this contribution)

To avoid the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, having to be up and down too many times, I will jump in he...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 cc909-911 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that shortish intervention. Essentially it raises the same point that the noble...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 830 c910 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the noble Lord, because I was following with interest his argument, which s...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c910 (Link to this contribution)

I am reluctant to give the noble Lord a private lecture on this, but I will set out a very short ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 c910 (Link to this contribution)

This could develop into a really interesting argument, I am afraid—between lawyers. The noble Lor...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c910 (Link to this contribution)

I started my remarks by saying that international treaties are extremely important and that we sh...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 830 c910 (Link to this contribution)

As a matter of fact, the European Convention on Human Rights was incorporated by the Human Rights...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c912 (Link to this contribution)

With great respect, the noble Baroness is wrong. The Human Rights Act did not incorporate the con...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c912 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with the noble Baroness that we should pass clear legislation. I think she used ...

Lord Wolfson of Tredegar | 830 c912 (Link to this contribution)

That is the first time I have heard the word used. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, used ...

Lord Dubs | 830 cc912-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a non-lawyer, I have found the last few minutes absolutely absorbing. I have learned...

Lord Dubs | 830 c913 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be very careful—I do not want to be thrown out of here. During the referendum campaign, B...

Lord Paddick | 830 cc913-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we support the clarifying amendments in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ho...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 830 c914 (Link to this contribution)

I draw the noble Lord’s attention to the fact that he is conflating two different purposes. One i...

Lord Paddick | 830 cc914-5 (Link to this contribution)

I will apologise to the noble Lord if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the 700,000 is net...

Lord Coaker | 830 cc915-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a privilege to wind up for His Majesty’s Opposition. I start by declaring my inte...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc916-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had a very interesting, long and good debate, which has had perhaps more than a...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 830 c918 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way. I merely want to ask whether you are recommending that all o...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c919 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord knows, the Prime Minister and President Macron have had regular discussions and...

Baroness Ludford | 830 c919 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to intervene on the Minister, but I wonder if he could direct my attention to where in...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc919-920 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness. I was indeed about to mention her in my next sentence. ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 830 c920 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not think that it might at least be a courtesy to the Committee to set out whic...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc920-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to address the issues of the broad applicability of the Section 19(1)(b) statement. T...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 830 c922 (Link to this contribution)

When my noble friend was replying to the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, he said that the ECHR memorand...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c922 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct: the ECHR memorandum is one of the documents prepared to support the Bill in its ...

Viscount Hailsham | 830 c922 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister leaves this part of his address, will he tell the House whether it is the int...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c922 (Link to this contribution)

As I have already outlined, it is clear that there is nothing in the Bill that would require the ...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 830 c922 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister seems to be placing a great deal of weight on there being nothing in this Bill that ...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 cc922-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that I agree with the noble Lord. There is no requirement that powers should concei...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 830 c923 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether the Minister could help me. He said that the Government would apply—I gather—all...

Lord Murray of Blidworth | 830 c923 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, as I have already said, it is the Government’s view that nothing in the Bill requires th...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 830 cc923-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this very interesting and ...

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