UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Lords committee stage first day. Amendments to the motion that the House do now resolve itself into Committee debated and withdrawn. Original motion agreed to. Clause 1 under consideration. (Part 1 of 2)

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

824 cc1396-1464 

Session

2022-23

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Proceeding contributions


Show all contributions (123)
Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 cc1397-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I begin by taking this opportunity to extend the condolences of these Benches—and I am ...

Baroness Altmann | 824 cc1400-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to add my support to the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 cc1401-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it may assist the House to know that we from these Benches can confirm our support for ...

Lord Judge | 824 cc1403-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the House for being unable to speak at Second Reading. I put my name dow...

Lord Howard of Lympne | 824 c1404 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the effect of these amendments, whether one agrees with their precise wording, is to gi...

Lord Hain | 824 cc1405-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that I will not embarrass the noble Lord, Lord Howard, by saying that I agree wi...

Viscount Hailsham | 824 c1408 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I express my support for the observations of the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and the ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 824 cc1408-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too will be brief. I have heard nothing in the preceding speeches with which I disagr...

Lord Cormack | 824 cc1409-1411 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak with a sense of something approaching elation from yesterday. We have a new Pri...

Baroness O'Loan | 824 c1410 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak as one who lives in Northern Ireland and experiences on a regular basis the imp...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 824 cc1410-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to support both these amendments and to pay tribute to our colleague Baroness Ma...

Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 824 cc1412-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I spoke at Second Reading and made clear my opposition to Bill. I will not repeat any o...

Lord Patten of Barnes | 824 cc1414-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will not begin by following my noble friend with an autobiographical diversion, but I want to s...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 824 cc1415-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, has done such fantastic work on pensions and much mor...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1417 (Link to this contribution)

Just to correct what the noble Baroness said about my contribution, I did not say that the Bill w...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 824 c1417 (Link to this contribution)

I wrote it down and I will check. It was said that if there were not substantial alterations to t...

Baroness Ludford | 824 c1418 (Link to this contribution)

Has the noble Baroness seen the latest opinion poll, which shows that, when you exclude “Don’t kn...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 824 c1418 (Link to this contribution)

I am always delighted when people think that opinion polls and what is said on Twitter are democr...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 824 c1418 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sure the House would not expect me to, or hope that I would, follow that contribut...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1418-1420 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak with some trepidation as, apart from the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, this...

Baroness O'Loan | 824 c1420 (Link to this contribution)

Can I ask the noble Lord whether he thinks that the Government’s intention to call a Northern Ire...

Lord Bew | 824 c1420 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, very much for that question. The short answer is that I ...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 824 c1420 (Link to this contribution)

That is what noble Lords have been saying.

Lord Bew | 824 c1420 (Link to this contribution)

The negotiation with the European Union is proceeding apace anyway. This is of no relevance —I ke...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 824 c1421 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bew, for giving way. While I was not at BIPA, my clear understanding...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1421-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. Of course I take the point, but I was saying tha...

Lord Howard of Lympne | 824 c1422 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the noble Lord think that it is slightly odd that his justification in law for supportin...

Lord Bew | 824 c1422 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has a point—but not as deep a point as he might imagine, because the Government ha...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1422 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord; he knows that I like and respect him. I am trying to follow the ...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1422-3 (Link to this contribution)

We are in political negotiations. Here is our problem; I have already explained it. When I tried ...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 824 cc1423-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in all this discussion, not enough is said about the horror of what was experienced in ...

Lord Pannick | 824 cc1424-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Bew, because he has at least made the effort to p...

Lord Bew | 824 c1425 (Link to this contribution)

It is a little more than just “a need to”, which is definitely there. I can see perfectly clearly...

Lord Pannick | 824 c1425 (Link to this contribution)

I bow to the noble Lord, who has immeasurably more knowledge and experience of Northern Ireland t...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 cc1426-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had not intended to take part in this debate because I had not realised that it would...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 c1427 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Clarke, has already spoken. I want to get on and not delay the House any lon...

Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 824 c1427 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord. I have every respect for him; we have been together in...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 cc1427-1430 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity that the noble Lord gives me to clarify that point. If he looks...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 cc1428-1433 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. As I was rising, I lo...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 824 c1431 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that the Government have said they will publish the draft regulations is very welcome, ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1431 (Link to this contribution)

One of my introducing Peers was my noble friend Lord Howard. He often said to me, “Tariq, when no...

Baroness Altmann | 824 c1431 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall not detain the House. We have had a very good debate. I thank my noble friend f...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 cc1431-4 (Link to this contribution)

I start by thanking the Minister for the tone of his response to this debate. I did not anticipat...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1434 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chapman of Darlington

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 15, at end insert—<...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 cc1434-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful and will try not to repeat myself and go over the discussion we have just had. The ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 cc1436-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendments 2 and 6 in my name and support those in the name of the n...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 824 cc1437-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for their pr...

Lord Cormack | 824 c1438 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to make a suggestion. It seems to me that we are not going to achieve a gr...

Baroness Ludford | 824 c1439 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we heard two views earlier in the debate, which was longer than any of us expected, on ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 cc1439-1440 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. I will go straight to the amendments. ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1440 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister clarify the sequencing of talks with the EU, Article 16 and the regulations un...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1441 (Link to this contribution)

What I said, and I have said it before, and without prejudice to our position on other mechanisms...

Lord Pannick | 824 c1441 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister explain how the doctrine of necessity can be satisfied when the Government thems...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1441 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure we will return to the principle of the doctrine of necessity in later amendments. The u...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 824 cc1441-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way. I welcome very much his willingness, expressed to the noble ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1442 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hear what the noble Lord says; of course, he is a real veteran of diplomacy. When I r...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1442 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful. I read that paper, but that was prior to Michael Ellis, the Paymaster-General, whe...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1442 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in any negotiation, parties will consider their position as discussions continue. What ...

Baroness Hoey | 824 c1442 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that there cannot be day-to-day updates on negotiations; that would be nonsense. I a...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 cc1442-3 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is right. The point of contention for us in any discussion has remained the ab...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 cc1443-4 (Link to this contribution)

My apologies; I have covered Amendments 2 and 43, which are the ones in this group. Without repea...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1444 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. I note again his rather charming tone, but I am afraid he cannot d...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 824 c1444 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Baroness accept the principle that the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, asked me to clar...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 cc1444-5 (Link to this contribution)

I have been very clear about that. I am surprised by the Minister’s intervention on that point, b...

Baroness Ludford | 824 c1445 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

3: Clause 1, page 1, line 15, at end insert—

“(e) req...

Baroness Ludford | 824 cc1445-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 3 and speak to Amendment 67. If the Government are so confiden...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 824 c1446 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords—oh, I give way to the noble and learned Lord.

Lord Judge | 824 c1446 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you very much. Just so that we are not met with the argument that we never show legal advic...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 824 cc1446-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thought my days of trying to beat the gun had left me behind a long time ago. I apolo...

Lord Pannick | 824 cc1448-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I very much agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, said about this being a cont...

Lord Bew | 824 c1449 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like first to take up my noble friend Lord Pannick’s point about the Government...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1449 (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble Lord give way on that point? I am just wishing to test that a little further with...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1449-1450 (Link to this contribution)

Both the EU and the UK Government said at a number of points—three at least—that this agreement i...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 824 c1450 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Is there not a possible remedy here? If ther...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1450-1 (Link to this contribution)

We are in a situation now where in Dublin it is accepted by those involved in the negotiation tha...

Baroness Altmann | 824 cc1451-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with all due respect to the noble Lord, Lord Bew, and in due deference to the noble and...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 cc1452-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this debate illustrates one of the issues deeply affecting Northern Ireland politics: t...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1453 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that my noble friend—if I can call him that—has been lied to repeatedly, but he was ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 c1454 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, and I understand what she is saying, but the issues that wer...

Lord Pannick | 824 c1454 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely understand the noble Lord’s political grievance, but the fact is that Article 16 is pa...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1454 (Link to this contribution)

I always find it very interesting to follow the noble Lord. As I said before, I have been trying ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 824 c1455 (Link to this contribution)

Do not worry, I will not be arguing that passionately for any Bill that could end up being withdr...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 cc1455-6 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said, there is a difference between recognising that there are m...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1457 (Link to this contribution)

I hear he has changed. The former Paymaster-General, who is now the former Attorney-General, was ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 824 c1457 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I might provide a lifeline to the Advocate-General for Scotland, because I am a Scotsman ...

Lord Bew | 824 cc1457-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, very briefly, I have been trying to say that the legal advice is a little more complica...

Lord Pannick | 824 c1458 (Link to this contribution)

For my part, and I am sure it is true of others who have spoken in this debate, I am not asking t...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1458 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I turn to Amendments 3 and 67 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1458 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend. I was left by some of the strictures and anticipations of my po...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 824 c1458 (Link to this contribution)

The Advocate-General has just given the totally conventional response about the Government not pu...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 cc1458-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Government set out their position at the outset to assuage, hopefully, the concerns...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1459 (Link to this contribution)

Or contributed. Where I and the Government differ from the noble Lord is in this regard: we signe...

Lord Pannick | 824 c1459 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful and I apologise for speaking so often, but this is Committee. If the Governmen...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1459 (Link to this contribution)

To pick up the noble Lord’s point about the CJEU, the Belfast/Good Friday agreement is based, as ...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 824 c1459 (Link to this contribution)

I listened very carefully to what my noble and learned friend said, but the situation remains the...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I beg respectfully to differ from my noble friend. The situation is not the same, becau...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

I have noticed the emphasis that the Minister has placed twice now on the word “implementation”, ...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

I am referring to implementation in terms of the manner in which these problems have arisen: the ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

I was muttering to myself, actually. Those are not problems of implementation of the protocol, th...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her intervention, and I hope I will be able to,...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1460 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord has just told the Committee that the problem is with the implementatio...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the problems with which we are grappling lie in the implementation of the protocol: I t...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

Is this the noble and learned Lord correcting the record now from his Second Reading speech? I am...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord promised at the very outset of Committee, when he opened the earlier debate, that ...

Baroness Altmann | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

Could I ask my noble and learned friend to amplify what it is in the way that the protocol is wor...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the diversion of trade and the effects upon the confidence of the unionist community in...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, would the Minister be able to cite any other agreement the UK has signed where the...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1461 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that question brings me on to dealing with the terms of the argument in relation to Art...

Lord Cormack | 824 c1462 (Link to this contribution)

I must confess that I am very troubled and puzzled. If the Government have decided that this is w...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 c1462 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as your Lordships have heard from my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and the noble...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 824 c1462 (Link to this contribution)

I will refer to this in the next group, but the Minister might want to add a little extra with re...

Lord Stewart of Dirleton | 824 cc1462-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in any case, there will be parties that are disappointed to a greater extent than other...

Baroness Ludford | 824 cc1463-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister said that the four-page document we saw in July was designed to assuage ou...

Lord Bew | 824 c1464 (Link to this contribution)

This is a little simpler than our discussion, which has reached a rather convoluted shape. The Go...

Baroness Ludford | 824 c1464 (Link to this contribution)

I will not prolong the debate as we all want something to eat. I simply disagree with the noble L...

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