UK Parliament / Open data

Procurement Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 13 July 2022, in the House of Lords, led by Lord True and Baroness Scott of Bybrook. The answering members were Lord Coaker and Baroness Hayman of Ullock.
Lords committee stage fourth day. Clauses 11 to 14 agreed to. Clause 15 under consideration.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

823 cc453-520GC 

Session

2022-23

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 823 c453GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will just wind up the debate we had on Monday. In this group, I have Amendment 52, wh...

Baroness Parminter | 823 c453GC (Link to this contribution)

I am in my place.


Show all contributions (94)
Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 823 cc453-4GC (Link to this contribution)

Oh, the noble Baroness is there; I was looking for her in the place in which she sat on Monday. S...

Lord True | 823 cc454-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness and all those who spoke on this group on our previous day in Committee...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 823 c455GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, he really cannot get away with that. There are huge numbers of different amendments, wh...

Lord True | 823 cc455-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that was the noble Lord trying to wriggle off the hook but impaling himself bac...

Baroness Thornton | 823 c457GC (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister please explain why the term social value is not in the Bill?

Lord True | 823 c457GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I have just said, we believe that the additional objective of maximising social valu...

Baroness Thornton | 823 c457GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but the Minister has said that there is no definition of public benefit, and that is ...

Lord True | 823 cc457-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again, I have set out the argument. The noble Baroness disagrees but I am not going to ...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 823 c458GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened carefully to what the Minister said but I am still puzzled. We are tryi...

Lord True | 823 cc458-460GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord always slightly loses me when he rides off in his speeches. I have a vision of him...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 823 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

Just before the Minister sits down, I really do not think that that is what we are trying to achi...

Lord True | 823 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in a sense, it depends where the straitjacket applies and where flexibility is enabled....

Lord Scriven | 823 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

I have listened very carefully and have just reread every amendment in this group. Can the Minist...

Lord True | 823 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

A considerable number of amendments mandate that contracting authorities must have regard to cert...

Lord Knight of Weymouth | 823 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Knight of Weymouth

54: Clause 11, page 8, line 38, at end insert—

Lord Knight of Weymouth | 823 cc461-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should start by apologising for not being able to be present for Second Reading, but ...

Lord Hendy | 823 cc463-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 186, 292, 297, 315, 319 and 519. I express my gratitude to t...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 823 cc466-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise very briefly and with great pleasure to follow the noble Lords, Lord Hendy and L...

Lord Clement-Jones | 823 cc467-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendments 54, 104 and 535 and will speak to Amendments 67 and 116, which I h...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 823 cc468-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is an important group of amendments, which focus on what we believe work in this c...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 823 cc469-471GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sorry to disappoint. The following amendments are concerned with placing additiona...

Lord Hendy | 823 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

Why would breaches of ILO conventions not apply to bidders in this country if they apply to bidde...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 823 cc471-3GC (Link to this contribution)

As that is a legal question, I shall get a legal answer for the noble Lord, and I will certainly ...

Lord Knight of Weymouth | 823 c473GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the response and to those who took part in this relatively short deba...

Lord Lansley | 823 c473GC (Link to this contribution)

Tabled by

Baroness Noakes

60: Clause 12, page 9, line 2, leave out “may” and insert “...

Baroness Noakes | 823 c474GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with the leave of the Committee, I will move Amendment 60 in the name of my noble frien...

Baroness Parminter | 823 cc474-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have two amendments in this group. In the absence of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthin...

Baroness Boycott | 823 cc475-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Before I speak to Amendment 66, I ex...

Baroness Verma | 823 cc478-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. I have already spoke...

Baroness Thornton | 823 cc479-480GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak very briefly to Amendment 75A in my name. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady...

Lord Aberdare | 823 c480GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have Amendment 71 in this group, which is a simple probing amendment seeking to under...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 823 cc480-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have several amendments in this group: Amendments 69, 70, 76 and 79. It was interesti...

Earl of Devon | 823 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise; this is my first appearance on this Bill as I missed Second Reading. I ris...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 823 cc483-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, public and parliamentary debate on the national procurement policy statement is a very ...

Baroness Worthington | 823 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise for my late arrival. I will be brief. Amendment 65 in my name and the conse...

Lord Wigley | 823 cc485-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have waited until the latter stages of this debate before intervening, for the simple...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 823 cc486-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. I agree with him, but I will ta...

Lord Scriven | 823 cc487-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has become a fascinating discussion, particularly when linked to the previous grou...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 823 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord accept that you need to do that as much for procurement directors as for the ...

Lord Scriven | 823 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

I particularly did not use the prism of public sector procurement professions, because I thought ...

Baroness Boycott | 823 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

I just wanted to add something to my amendment; I thank Members of the Committee for their suppor...

Lord Coaker | 823 cc489-491GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish the noble Lord, Lord True, well. I hope that he feels better than he did. I will...

Lord True | 823 c491GC (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. This has been an extremely interesting and thought-prov...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 823 c491GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister referred to that document as a “draft statement”. My understanding is that it is a n...

Lord True | 823 cc492-4GC (Link to this contribution)

This document was produced at one stage of the process of working towards this procurement legisl...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 823 cc494-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I have just one more question. It is about periodicity. From the point of view of a contractor, i...

Lord True | 823 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

As so often, the noble Lord makes an important point. I was charmed by one aspect of his argument...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 823 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

The Government have put some objectives into legislation, such as the climate change targets. Wha...

Baroness Worthington | 823 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

I remember well when we were debating the then Climate Change Bill how important it was to includ...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 823 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

On a serious note, I add the example of pension schemes. The Government have laid a series of res...

Lord True | 823 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

In the real world, we are dealing with a Bill which relates to contracting authorities. The count...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 823 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case that small and medium-sized enterprises are facing these requirements from oth...

Lord True | 823 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

I hear that but I must say this: it is sometimes quite extraordinary to listen to noble Lords. Yo...

Lord Aberdare | 823 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that answer and for getting to it at the third time of asking, by which ...

Lord True | 823 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

Well, I did try to get there but I had an intervention, then another intervention. It would be di...

Lord Wigley | 823 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for and accept the integrity with which the Minister is putting that forward and th...

Lord True | 823 cc497-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, obviously my right honourable friend will consider everything in his engagement with th...

Lord Coaker | 823 cc498-9GC (Link to this contribution)

Excuse me for interrupting the Minister but I do not understand what he just said. Amendment 80 w...

Lord True | 823 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

I deliberately referred to Procurement Policy Note 06/21. It is something that the Government hav...

Lord Coaker | 823 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to pursue this. Procurement Policy Note 06/21 helpfully has some frequently asked ques...

Lord True | 823 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

That is the point. Currently, 06/21 refers to “Central Government”, as the noble Lord said, but h...

Lord Coaker | 823 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. It is helpful. If I get a letter back saying that the amendment go...

Lord True | 823 c500GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I hope that letters that are sent out are shared with other Members of the Committee and, if...

Baroness Noakes | 823 c500GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had a very wide-ranging, and rather long, debate on this group of amendments. I...

Lord True | 823 c501GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord True

83: Clause 15, page 11, line 9, leave out “specifications” and ins...

Lord True | 823 c501GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Government have the lead amendment in this group, and I look forward to hearing the...

Baroness Newlove | 823 c501GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I now call the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, to speak remotely.

Baroness Brinton | 823 cc502-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start with my usual apology that the rules for remote contributors mean that I will b...

Lord Aberdare | 823 cc503-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have Amendments 120 and 129A in this group. I will also speak to Amendment 119 in the...

Baroness Thornton | 823 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

I have three sentences on my very tiny Amendment 122A. It asks the Minister to explain to the Com...

Baroness Noakes | 823 cc506-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Lansley has three amendments in this rather diverse group. The fir...

Baroness Worthington | 823 c507GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to two amendments in my name. I am grateful for the support of the nobl...

Lord Wigley | 823 cc507-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 124A, which stands in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Mc...

Baroness Boycott | 823 c508GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendments 124 and 127 in the name of the my noble friend Lady Worthington. A...

Lord Scriven | 823 cc508-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 528C, which my noble friend Lady Brinton has already ...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 823 c509GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to make a point about proportionality. It arises under the amendment in the name...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 823 c510GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with apologies for missing some of this debate, I will speak briefly to my Amendment 12...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 823 cc510-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords—oh, I have just thrown all my papers on the ground. Actually, I do not need them. I am h...

Lord True | 823 cc511-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for another interesting debate that I have enjoyed listening to. So...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 823 c515GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister make it clear: when he says SMEs, does that embrace small charities and volunta...

Lord True | 823 cc515-7GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, my Lords, I believe I did say that. In parliamentary terms, I am reiterating what I said. SM...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 823 c517GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps he would care to consider whether paragraph (c) should be reduced in length, because if m...

Baroness Worthington | 823 c517GC (Link to this contribution)

Sorry to interrupt, but just to clarify, it seems to me that the reference to “maximising public ...

Lord True | 823 cc517-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I respectfully disagree with the noble Baroness. It is acknowledged from the other side that valu...

Baroness Noakes | 823 c518GC (Link to this contribution)

We would not mind if my noble friend made it shorter.

Lord True | 823 c518GC (Link to this contribution)

I would be happy to. There were a lot of amendments. I do not want to break down and not continue...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 823 c518GC (Link to this contribution)

Would my noble friend like me to take over his speech, as he is coughing?

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 823 cc518-520GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 131, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Best, would prohibit contracting authorit...

Lord True | 823 c520GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank your Lordships for your indulgence in letting my noble friend complete the spee...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 823 c520GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think this is a convenient point for the Grand Committee to adjourn on the Bill.

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