I think that we are at risk of having a really interesting debate about the substance of what a child should learn in school, which the Bill does not actually allow us very easily to do. The benefit of what the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, is proposing is that he is very clear where he is coming from, why he is doing it and what he is seeking to achieve. There is a philosophical underpinning of the amendments that he is proposing, so at least we have something to hold on to when we either agree or disagree with him.
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The noble Lord wants to protect the freedoms of academies to innovate, to be creative and to respond to local needs. There is a really interesting debate about whether the entitlement of a child crosses over with that. It would be great to have some thoughts from the Government on where they stand, so that we can engage with this in a more meaningful way to people who may, possibly, be watching our proceedings, as the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, said.
Many who are leading schools at the moment will agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. They have been in touch to tell us that this was a bit of a bolt from the blue for them. They are very concerned about what this means for the way that they will be able to lead their MATs and individual schools in the future. That worries me because, when making these kinds of changes, it may not be possible to get everybody to agree with you as you move forward—people have deeply held and very different views on these issues from time to time—but you at least need to make an attempt to engage, to explain and to grow understanding of why you are doing what it is that you are doing.
It has been great to have the focus on Darlington in our discussions this evening; it is appreciated. A leader of a MAT, whom I will not name because I have not asked her if I can, called me when the Bill was published.
She said that it looked as though it had been drafted by a primary school class that just wanted to be in charge but did not really know what it wanted to do about it. She was being quite flippant, but serious too. She runs an outstanding group of schools; I am in danger of giving away her identity. The point is that this is something unexpected that is resented by many leaders of MATs who care deeply about the quality of education and experience of the children who attend their schools. They may agree to a greater or lesser extent with the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, but they have not been taken on a journey along with the Government to a place where they can proceed with confidence in what the Government are about to do, and support it or otherwise.
I understand that you cannot always get everyone to agree with you. My noble friend Lady Morris gave her example, but the example that I can remember is when the Labour Government introduced the literacy and numeracy hour. Not everyone was thrilled about this; it was seen as a bit too interfering and too prescriptive, but the Government at the time were clear why they thought it was the right thing. They had to go out and justify it, look for evidence and say that it was about addressing a very fundamental problem that we had with standards of numeracy and literacy at the time in our primary schools. They went ahead and, in the end, those measures got broad support from teachers and parents. That would be a much better approach.