UK Parliament / Open data

Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill

Lords committee stage. Clauses 1 to 65 agreed to. Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to. Bill reported without amendment.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

820 cc34-112 

Session

2021-22

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Proceeding contributions

Lord Callanan | 820 c34 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

1: Clause 4, page 2, line 19, at end insert “and, where applic...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc34-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we start with a group of government amendments to collect more information about trusts...


Show all contributions (133)
Lord Clement-Jones | 820 cc36-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 17. I am delighted that it has also been signed by the nob...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c37 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the theme of what the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, just said, which is the...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 820 cc38-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we find ourselves in an unusual position. Normally, this House is trying to knock the e...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 c39 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak in support of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and his Amendment 17. I...

Lord Coaker | 820 cc39-41 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for the way in which he has engaged with his officials to try to address som...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c41 (Link to this contribution)

I will just underline one point that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, made. At Second Reading we got ...

Lord Cormack | 820 c41 (Link to this contribution)

I just make a very brief point to my noble friend. Because of migraine, I was unable to take part...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc41-4 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank noble Lords for their comments. I do not disagree with the sentiments of a lot of ...

Lord Empey | 820 c44 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that everybody in this House, as was the case last week, is on the same page, a...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c44 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I could just add to what the noble Lord has just said. The Minister mentioned t...

Lord Callanan | 820 c44 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, I am happy to provide the reassurances that both noble Lords have asked for—in the case o...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 c45 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Agnew of Oulton

3: Clause 4, page 3, line 21, at end insert—

“(3A...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 c45 (Link to this contribution)

I really want to carry on in a similar vein to earlier comments, and what my Amendment 3 is tryin...

Lord Sikka | 820 cc45-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to a number of amendments in my name in this group—there are eight of t...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 820 cc46-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support most of the amendments in the group, including the government amendments, whi...

Lord Eatwell | 820 cc48-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will make a couple of observations on the amendments put forward by my noble friends ...

Lord Cromwell | 820 cc49-50 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is clearly a great deal we can learn from Jersey and I am very happy to follow th...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 cc50-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 53. I thank the noble Lords, Lord Cromwell and Lord Vaux, fo...

Lord Rooker | 820 c51 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had not intended to speak today. I came to learn and listen to the experts on areas I...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 820 cc51-2 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is obvious that the Minister will accept a lot of these amendments, because they are f...

Lord Fox | 820 cc52-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first time I have spoken today. I will make a couple of points from the Fro...

Lord Coaker | 820 cc53-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is yet another group of amendments with contributions from across the Chamber that...

Lord Callanan | 820 c55 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. Before I address the amendmen...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c55 (Link to this contribution)

Just thinking off the top of my head, I can think of four registers of this ilk which exist alrea...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc55-6 (Link to this contribution)

I would be happy to debate with the noble Lord. When I queried this, my information was that Germ...

Lord Sikka | 820 c56 (Link to this contribution)

I refer the Minister to an entity called Business Bank Italy Ltd. It was owned by a convicted Maf...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc56-8 (Link to this contribution)

We are not opening the door. I assume that the companies the noble Lord is referring to are exist...

Lord Burnett | 820 c58 (Link to this contribution)

Does the 25% limit cater for class rights in the definition of control? In other words, you can h...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc58-9 (Link to this contribution)

I think it refers to rights of control—the actual percentage shareholding of the company—but if I...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister help me and explain why they would be non-compliant if they had two weeks within...

Lord Callanan | 820 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, but they would have to be tabling notices to any potential beneficial owners in order to upd...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 820 c59 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not addressed the point that this can easily be dealt with by bringing forward t...

Lord Callanan | 820 c60 (Link to this contribution)

No, I do not disagree with that. It is, of course, perfectly possible—

Lord Eatwell | 820 c60 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on the same point, would it not be helpful for a third party to know who it is actually...

Lord Callanan | 820 c60 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed it would be helpful, and that is why we have the transparency of the register in the first...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c61 (Link to this contribution)

I do not wish to be argumentative with the Minister—well, perhaps I do—but can he confirm in resp...

Lord Callanan | 820 c61 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, that provides the required legal certainty to the third party that is buying it, at the expe...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am afraid I do not agree with the Minister; I am amazed that he thought that I would....

Lord Callanan | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, we are constantly looking at these matters. The Treasury is implicitly engaged in purs...

Lord Fox | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Each time the Minister speaks on this, I do not hear him acknowledge that there is a problem. In ...

Lord Callanan | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to agree with the noble Lord. If there is one firm of accountants or one legal practic...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the Minister and slow the proceedings but, on that point, the M...

Lord Callanan | 820 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. Obviously, a number of different government departments would be involved in doing this, but...

Lord Cormack | 820 c63 (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend think it would be a good idea to set up a Committee of your Lordships’ House...

Lord Callanan | 820 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord often suggests setting up special Committees of this House. He will know that it i...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 820 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister was kind enough to offer to meet with me about my Amendment 24. I actually asked abo...

Lord Callanan | 820 c64 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am happy to meet with the noble Lord and his colleagues to discuss that matter.

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 820 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I advise the Committee that if Amendment 33 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 34 by reason of...

Lord Callanan | 820 c64 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

33: Clause 9, page 7, line 23, leave out sub-paragraph (i) and...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc64-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start this grouping by speaking to the government amendments, which I have tabled. Th...

Lord Sikka | 820 cc65-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise; I am not sure if it is my turn or someone else’s. I have four amendments i...

Lord Coaker | 820 cc68-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Sikka, who again comes forward with a n...

Baroness Kramer | 820 cc69-70 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my colleagues are doing all the heavy lifting from these Benches, and I am incredibly g...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 820 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I think that is a story for the noble Baroness’s memoirs, and I look forward to reading it.

Lord Pannick | 820 cc70-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak about Amendment 92 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the n...

Lord Fox | 820 c72 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. I am glad that he had the oppo...

Lord Pannick | 820 c73 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord. I had an unavoidable other professional commitment, and the...

Lord Fox | 820 c73 (Link to this contribution)

It did indeed, and I am glad that the noble Lord has had the opportunity to speak.

Once aga...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc74-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am mindful that several noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman of Darlington, ...

Lord Faulks | 820 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. He talks, understandably, about a transition...

Lord Callanan | 820 c78 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord will know from his time in Government that the law officers provide confidential l...

Lord Fox | 820 c78 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I assume that the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, has had the answer he required. To come back...

Lord Callanan | 820 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I totally understand the point the noble Lord is making. I cannot give him a precise date; all I ...

Lord Fox | 820 c78 (Link to this contribution)

Given that your Lordships’ House has demonstrated that it can process statutory instruments at an...

Lord Callanan | 820 c79 (Link to this contribution)

It is a number of different things. There are administrative procedures to be put in place; the I...

Lord Faulks | 820 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I had not quite got an answer. I absolutely appreciate the Minister’s sincerity i...

Lord Callanan | 820 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his legal advice; I should not let my prejudices against lawyers get i...

Lord Sentamu | 820 c79 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise that I was not here for Second Reading. I went down with a very bad cold an...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc80-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to explain it to the noble and right reverend Lord. This is a severe piece of legislat...

Baroness Kramer | 820 c81 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Kramer

40: Clause 14, page 9, line 34, at end insert—

“(1A) T...

Baroness Kramer | 820 cc81-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will try to be brief on this issue. Amendments 40 and 41 both refer to whistleblowers...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 820 c83 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise very briefly to make my first contribution in Committee on these two very import...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 cc83-4 (Link to this contribution)

I support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. I accept that it is unlikely to go in...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c84 (Link to this contribution)

I rise briefly, in part to support this whistleblower amendment. I have asked questions on this i...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 820 cc84-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in some ways, the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer—she has done the Hous...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 820 cc85-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, for this amendment. I acknowledge that she has a very im...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 820 c86 (Link to this contribution)

I asked not what the Government had done but what they were going to do.

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 820 c86 (Link to this contribution)

Sorry; I misunderstood.

It is right and proper that the Government review the whistleblowin...

Baroness Kramer | 820 c87 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously, I am very disappointed with the answer and the ongoing complacency that undermines the...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c87 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Eatwell

42: Clause 16, page 10, line 24, at end insert—

“(A1) All...

Lord Eatwell | 820 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I explained at Second Reading that lack of data verification at Companies House has bee...

Lord Faulks | 820 c88 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I entirely support what the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, said. It is very much along the l...

Baroness Kramer | 820 cc88-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly on this issue, because I am very much of the opinion, as are many ...

Lord Pannick | 820 c89 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share the concerns expressed about the need for rigorous verification. I note that Cl...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c89 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister tries to answer that, we need to recognise delivering what the noble Lord, Lo...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 820 c89 (Link to this contribution)

I will quickly add to the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. Clause 16 sets out the regu...

Lord Coaker | 820 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Eatwell for moving Amendment 42. As we all know, ...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc90-1 (Link to this contribution)

I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, for tabling Amendment 42 and for his thoughtful contr...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c91 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I always think that the government defence of “not necessary” is the weakest we ever he...

Lord Fox | 820 c91 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Fox

43: Clause 18, page 11, line 18, leave out paragraph (b)

Memb...

Lord Fox | 820 cc91-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 43 is also signed by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. During Second Reading, I sp...

Lord Callanan | 820 c92 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it might be helpful for the Committee, before it debates this amendment, if I set out t...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 c92 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in view of that, I will not press my Amendment 44.

Lord Coaker | 820 c92 (Link to this contribution)

It would be appropriate to thank the Minister for agreeing to accept the amendment in my name and...

Lord Fox | 820 c92 (Link to this contribution)

I said it would be swift, but I had not calculated that it would be quite this swift, so I thank ...

Lord Callanan | 820 c93 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

54: Clause 32, page 19, line 13, at end insert—

“(5A) Th...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc93-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 54 and 84 require the Secretary of State to consult the devolved Administrat...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 820 c94 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as someone who takes a close interest in devolution matters, I am delighted with these ...

Lord Faulks | 820 c94 (Link to this contribution)

As a fellow member of the Constitution Committee, I endorse what the noble and learned Lord said....

Lord Fox | 820 c94 (Link to this contribution)

Never has the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, received such glowing praise, in my experience, and here...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 820 c94 (Link to this contribution)

I can add to the Minister’s embarrassment. We are pleased to see these amendments brought forward...

Lord Callanan | 820 cc94-5 (Link to this contribution)

I should quit while I am ahead on this one. I am not sure this will continue with other Bills, bu...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c96 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Clement-Jones

90: Clause 47, leave out Clause 47 and insert the followi...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 cc96-7 (Link to this contribution)

This amendment would provide limits on costs orders in relation to all civil recovery proceedings...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 820 cc97-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be brief. I have listened very careful to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, an...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 820 c98 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank both noble Lords for their points on this amendment. The Government are as one ...

Lord Fox | 820 c98 (Link to this contribution)

I just have a question. In the context of this Bill, the choice of UWOs was regarded by many as c...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 820 c98 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I think I was clear in my opening remarks that I am not at odds with the noble Lord, Lord Cl...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c99 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister is speaking the language I understand now—if it is technically flawed, the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 820 c99 (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to explore the cost landscape after this Bill because, as I said, I am principall...

Lord Faulks | 820 c99 (Link to this contribution)

I was somewhat concerned by the lack of response to what the noble Lord, Lord Fox, said about UWO...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 820 c99 (Link to this contribution)

I share the sentiment of my noble friend that they will not be a niche activity. The measures in ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 820 c99 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her responses. As she understands, one of my main mot...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 820 c100 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Neville-Rolfe

91: Clause 52, page 32, line 35, at end insert—

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 820 cc100-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as we move on to the final group, I rise to move my Amendments 91 and 96. I was sorry t...

Lord Cromwell | 820 c101 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I recognise that we are on the home straight. On Amendment 91, the House needs to be cl...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 820 c102 (Link to this contribution)

Just for clarification, my proposal is for sunset regulation within the regulations, not within t...

Lord Cromwell | 820 cc102-3 (Link to this contribution)

My mistake; I struggle with joined-up writing.

Since I get only bite of the cherry and have...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 820 c103 (Link to this contribution)

It is a real pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell. I spoke at length on this matter l...

Lord Agnew of Oulton | 820 cc103-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak in support of my amendment, which seeks to achieve two things: an annual ...

Viscount Waverley | 820 c105 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, given the hour, I will be concise and crack on in support of the need for sufficient hu...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 820 c105 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Agnew. Over the years...

Lord Fox | 820 c106 (Link to this contribution)

We are in danger of reaching the end of this in unanimous agreement, so I shall introduce a littl...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 820 cc106-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this seems an appropriate group on which to end Committee. It seems almost as if we hav...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 820 cc107-111 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for these amendments. I must admit that, as we reach the end of...

Lord Empey | 820 c108 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, while progress has been made on providing funding for the investig...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 820 c108 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, within the agencies, particularly the NCA, of course we have great expertise and insigh...

Lord Burnett | 820 c108 (Link to this contribution)

Further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Empey, has the Minister consulted the Inland Re...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 820 c108 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I stray into the work of other departments—both the Home Office and the Treasury—but I ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 820 c108 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this short debate. I thank my no...

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