My Lords, this has been a very detailed debate and has explored what is at the heart of the subject before us. It has focused very much on what it is to have a safe space—something to which I will return briefly. I want to thank my noble friend Lord Hunt for leading this group of amendments and I will not repeat the points he made so ably in setting them out. As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, said, I hope the Minister will take these amendments in the spirit they are intended. Clearly, they have been very carefully crafted and debated in order to improve this section of the Bill, and I believe that they are very worthy of merit.
We on these Benches also support the development of a culture where staff feel able to speak up about mistakes without a presumption of blame. Since its creation, the work of the HSIB has placed an important focus on learning and improvement when things have gone wrong. However, there must be a balance with the need for appropriate accountability and redress, for the public to be protected from unsafe practices and practitioners, and for public confidence in the system to be maintained.
This debate has been rightly supportive of the HSSIB, its mission and the concept of safe spaces—on that I think there is agreement. There is also agreement
that it must be independent to be effective and trusted. However, following this debate, it seems that there is much work to be done by the Government on reviewing where, and to whom, disclosure of information can be made. Although the debate has expressed agreement that it is not appropriate for coroners, with their adversarial role, to have such access—and I share this view—there is a finely balanced debate about the issue of the ombudsman. As the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, said, this is complex—which I think is something of an understatement. The debate reflects the reality of the world in which the HSSIB seeks to improve the delivery of service.
The noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, have put forward their view that the ombudsman needs to be able to investigate robustly. I am sure there is agreement on that. I am sure the difficulty that the Minister will want to unpick as she takes away the views of your Lordships’ Committee today is how it will be possible to allow the ombudsman to do its job and yet retain safe spaces. As the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said, it is so important to give confidence to professionals that they can contribute to the investigations into systems failure.
I say to the Minister that I hope there will be a close examination of all the points put forward in today’s debate. I feel that by further investigation into and thought about the points that noble Lords have made, this part of the Bill can certainly be strengthened.