My Lords, it has been a fascinating debate, which has taken a little over an hour. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part, particularly those who signed the succession of amendments we have been debating. We have heard marvellous speeches from each of them. A huge number of points have been made, which we need to take away and consider in terms of what we should do with amendments such as these on Report.
I am encouraged by the tone and content of the Minister’s reply. I am particularly pleased that he did not close the door on the possibility of some form of polluter pays levy on the industry. I shall read what he said quite carefully, but that is certainly how it appeared to me. The commitment to be smoke-free by 2030 is still there, but I think we all take the view that, if we are going to reach that target, we must do more now or we will miss it. The key to that is doing something about the problem of smoking among poorer people in more deprived parts of the country.
To argue that this is just another product that people can choose whether to start or stop is complete nonsense, as all the evidence has demonstrated over the years. Apart from the fact, as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, pointed out, that it is the only product which kills a high proportion of its users if they follow the instructions exactly as set out by the manufacturers—that is not the case for gambling, incidentally, which can be dangerous but does not cause people to die in the way that tobacco smoking does—the point about the tobacco industry is that we are not dealing with a normal industry with normal ethics or morality.
That is why the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control was adopted by the United Nations in 2005. It is a supranational agreement that seeks
“to protect present and future generations from the devastating health, social, environmental and economic consequences of tobacco consumption and exposure to tobacco smoke”
by enacting a set of universal standards, stating the dangers of tobacco and limiting its use in all forms worldwide. We have done well in following the framework convention; it is important that we follow it in engaging with the industry, which is utterly unscrupulous, as anyone who has had any exposure to it over the years will know. It denied that smoking was dangerous or caused disease, then it denied that nicotine was addictive, then it denied that second-hand smoke was dangerous, and now it is saying that it is just another product.
These are important issues which need to be looked at and addressed. I take comfort from what the Minister has said. I shall read very carefully what he and other noble Lords have said in this debate but, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.