UK Parliament / Open data

Nationality and Borders Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 3 February 2022, in the House of Lords.
Lords Committee stage third day. Clause 12 agreed to. (Part 1 of 2).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

818 cc1013-1071 

Session

2021-22

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Legislative scrutiny: Nationality and Borders Bill (Part 1) - nationality. Joint Committee on Human Rights seventh report.
Wednesday, 3 November 2021
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Nationality and Borders Bill (Part 3) - Immigration offences and enforcement. Joint Committee on Human Rights ninth report.
Wednesday, 24 November 2021
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Nationality and Borders Bill 2021-22. Brought from the Commons.
Thursday, 9 December 2021
Bills
House of Lords
Nationality and Borders Bill. Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee eighteenth report.
Wednesday, 12 January 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (8)

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1013-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

56: Clause 12, page 15, line 39, at end insert...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1014-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 57, 59 and 60 in my name and those of the noble Barone...


Show all contributions (114)
Lord Horam | 818 cc1015-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I strongly welcome my noble friend’s initiative in building and setting up reception ce...

Baroness Neuberger | 818 cc1018-1020 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak in support of Amendments 56, 57 and 59 in the name of the noble Barones...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 c1020 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I point out to the noble Lord, Lord Horam, that the stresses and strains being experien...

Bishop of Durham | 818 cc1020-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in rising to support these amendments, to some of which I have added my name, I declare...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 818 cc1021-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, one rises to talk in this debate having heard speeches from the noble Baronesses and th...

Bishop of Durham | 818 c1024 (Link to this contribution)

My point was that I just do not believe that they should be right next door to military barracks....

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 818 c1024 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that point, but I do not accept the point that large centres cannot work if they are pro...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 818 c1024 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support these amendments and pay tribute to those whose names are attached to them, b...

Lord Horam | 818 c1024 (Link to this contribution)

Surely in many instances we will not know the state of their claim when those people are accommod...

Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 818 cc1024-5 (Link to this contribution)

It was the assumption that we were talking about illegal immigrants. The vast majority of the peo...

Lord Etherton | 818 cc1025-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 61 in my name. Unlike the previous amendments that have been ...

Lord Cashman | 818 cc1026-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to speak to these amendments and congratulate my noble friend Lady Liste...

Baroness Ludford | 818 c1027 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group and I ask the Minister to address in her res...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 cc1027-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, noble Lords will not be surprised if I strike a somewhat different note; none the less,...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1028 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord but, according to the Refugee Council, which did a very ca...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1028 (Link to this contribution)

I think we need to be careful not to make an assumption in either direction. I was quoting the Ho...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 818 c1028 (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend agree that it would be helpful to the Committee if, when the Minister comes ...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 cc1028-9 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, 125,000 is correct, and I think that many—most—are waiting for more than a year. But if I ma...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

No; it is very simple —too simple for the noble Baroness—but it would mean that we do not need hu...

Lord Dubs | 818 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would not want this whole debate to turn on the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Gree...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct. If the two are added together, it averages about 40,000 a year over the last eig...

Lord Dubs | 818 cc1029-1030 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to pursue the point, because it is diverting us from the particular amendments, whi...

Lord Marlesford | 818 c1030 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it seems to me that this debate reflects what we said yesterday in our debate and what ...

Lord Paddick | 818 cc1030-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett, for so comprehensive...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1032 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord mentioned that most applicants will become refugees. I have the Home Office figure...

Lord Paddick | 818 cc1032-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for the historic information that the noble Lord has provided. My understandin...

Lord Rosser | 818 c1033 (Link to this contribution)

I too express my appreciation to my noble friend Lady Lister of Burtersett for the determination ...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1033 (Link to this contribution)

To get the timescale on this, I say that 10 years ago it was 40,000 asylum seekers a year. That i...

Lord Rosser | 818 c1033 (Link to this contribution)

The potential is, of course, a matter of speculation. I note the point the noble Lord makes, but ...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1033 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, but my understanding is that the number of asylum claims ...

Lord Rosser | 818 cc1033-6 (Link to this contribution)

The point I wanted to make was that, when people were coming over in the back of lorries—not all ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1036 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all the noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I will clear up two...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 818 c1036 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Baroness leaves that point, is she able to give an average time to process these...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1036-7 (Link to this contribution)

I think I said right at the outset that I do not have a figure at this point in time. In terms of...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1037 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt, but I was so struck when we took evidence about sleep deprivation from p...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1037 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness and I share more in common than I thought, because sleep deprivation, which I ...

Bishop of Durham | 818 c1037 (Link to this contribution)

It was simply in pairs. That was quite clearly stated to us. Two in a room was quite welcome, but...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1037-8 (Link to this contribution)

Okay, I thank the right reverend Prelate for being so specific. However, I do not think that, fun...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1038 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister at this point make a firm, absolute assurance not only that there are no curren...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1038 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think I can go further than saying that there are no current plans because if a child wa...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1038 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister at least give an assurance that, except in the most exceptional circumstances,...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1038 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the noble Baroness’s point. I cannot go beyond saying there are no current plans, bu...

Baroness Hamwee | 818 c1038 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the Minister is coming on to that, perhaps I should sit down, because I was going to...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1038-1040 (Link to this contribution)

That is what I am going to come on to, if noble Lords will accommodate me—no pun intended—for a s...

Baroness Hamwee | 818 c1039 (Link to this contribution)

The point was made very clearly that these centres should not be places of detention. I was waiti...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1039 (Link to this contribution)

I repeat that these are not detention centres. There may be specific conditions—for example, if a...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1039 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt—I know that there is a lot to cover—but I want to follow on from that imp...

Bishop of Durham | 818 c1039 (Link to this contribution)

We saw and talked to people who were going out into Folkestone for a walk and coming back. So if ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1039 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the Committee will believe a holy man over me—so, yes, God’s representative on earth ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1039-1041 (Link to this contribution)

One of many. The right reverend Prelate is absolutely correct and put it perfectly.

Where w...

Bishop of Durham | 818 c1041 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answers. Report after report has highlighted the impor...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1041-2 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to come on to that, and I shall do so now. The right reverend Prelate has mentioned E...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 818 c1042 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister may recall that some years ago I came to see her, with the then Minister B...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1042-3 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think there is any disagreement here. I have seen some great examples—particularly in th...

Lord Cashman | 818 c1043 (Link to this contribution)

It was also particularly in relation to LGBTQI people placed in those situations.

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1043 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I totally concur with the noble Lord’s point.

I turn to the judgment on Napier, mentio...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 818 cc1043-4 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is valiantly dealing seriatim with the qualms that so many of us have about accommod...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for asking that question. When someone arrives in this count...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 818 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

As long as the queue is three, four or five years long, it is not really just a question of initi...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is absolutely right, and this goes right back to the beginning of this discussion....

Lord Marlesford | 818 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend agree that there must be a limit to the resources available to deal with the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

There is a limit to both the resources and the geography of this country. That is why the system ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1044-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank Committee Members for their kind words and, more importantly, those who made st...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1045 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Baroness agree that there should be a distinction between those who have had their...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1045-6 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am sorry; I do not, because they are all people. We should start by accepting their common ...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

64: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause—

“As...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a rare treat: a group with only two amendments. I will speak both to Amendment ...

Lord Paddick | 818 cc1047-8 (Link to this contribution)

There is agreement. In 2019, it was 65%. To prevent such a large proportion of asylum seekers wor...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1048 (Link to this contribution)

—and I beg to move Amendment 64.

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 818 c1048 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was trying to intervene on the noble Lord’s speech, and I apologise to him for doing ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1048-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 65, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud. She is ve...

Baroness Prashar | 818 cc1049-1050 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, and supporte...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 818 cc1050-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is an absolute pleasure to follow both my noble friend Lady Lister of Burtersett—who...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 c1052 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, except that she droppe...

Baroness Ludford | 818 c1052 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the case for asylum seekers being able to work after a few months is compelling. I am s...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 818 c1052 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness made a very important point about public opinion. I draw her attention to a st...

Baroness Ludford | 818 cc1053-4 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has taken the wind out of my sails; I was going to quote that statistic, though I ...

Baroness Meacher | 818 cc1054-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 64, to which I have added my name. I also strongly support Amendmen...

Lord Bethell | 818 cc1055-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is quite daunting to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher. I very much hope that ...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 cc1056-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have heard eight speakers on one side of this debate, and I think a word is in order...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1057 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, and it may be that he was going on to acknowledge this, b...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1057 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I heard that opinion poll mentioned a couple of times. I would actually like to see the ques...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 818 c1057 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the noble Lord is concerned about asylum seekers who turn out not to be recognised. N...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1058 (Link to this contribution)

I do not see the relevance of that question.

Let me conclude, if I may. As we discussed ear...

Lord Coaker | 818 cc1058-1060 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 64 and 65. Before I specifically speak to them, I say to th...

Lord Green of Deddington | 818 c1060 (Link to this contribution)

I am a bit puzzled. Although the precise numbers vary from year to year, it is quite clear that s...

Baroness Ludford | 818 c1060 (Link to this contribution)

Can I intervene on an intervention? What is wrong if those people are allowed to work? If it is t...

Lord Coaker | 818 cc1060-1 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Green, that, at the end of the day, of course you want to speed the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1061-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I again thank noble Lords who have spoken on these two amendments. The fact that there ...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 818 c1063 (Link to this contribution)

I support these amendments, because they are good economics and good social policy, but if the Go...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1063 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is based on a calculation. I shall not try to bluster my way through what that calcu...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1063 (Link to this contribution)

I hate to say it, but I have just checked my phone and there is no evidence there of that letter ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1063 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we often say that we will not provide a running commentary, but I will provide a runnin...

Lord Paddick | 818 cc1063-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have the famous Dubs letter; I do not know why others have not—maybe it was sent to ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1064 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

66: After Clause 12, insert the following new ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 cc1064-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 66 is also in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hamwee and Lady Jones o...

Baroness Hamwee | 818 cc1066-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am glad to have my name to this amendment. I am aware—to use the rather odd language ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 c1067 (Link to this contribution)

Am I a terrier as well? I think of myself as a larger animal, but a terrier will do. There is alm...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1067 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, however undesirable accommodation centres may be, being thrown out on to the street as ...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 818 cc1067-8 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord has mentioned me by name, I feel duty-bound to respond. It is far from my respo...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 c1068 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is absolutely right, except that those who interject constantly with tiny, mea...

Lord Coaker | 818 cc1068-9 (Link to this contribution)

Coming from where I have, it seems incredibly courteous to me. We have Ministers who try to answe...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 c1069 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again, I thank noble Lords who have made points. I will attempt to assist the noble Lor...

Lord Paddick | 818 c1069 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I could just explain to both noble Baronesses that it was facts that were in di...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 818 cc1069-1071 (Link to this contribution)

That is not in dispute; I was just echoing the point made by my noble friend Lady Stowell about r...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 818 c1071 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank everyone who spoke in support of the amendment, and I thank the Minister. I did...

Subjects

Back to top