My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for introducing this group of amendments and setting out for your Lordships that what we need to see is a reasonable system of checks and balances which will serve financial flows and objectives and where, if tensions arise, they can be resolved quickly, fairly and transparently. Certainly, these amendments provide for this.
8.45 pm
Currently, the situation we have in the Bill, as we have heard through the contributions of a number of noble Lords, is that we have a proposal for a power to limit
the capital spending of foundation trusts. As we have heard in this important though brief debate, such a use has to be carefully controlled. That is not least because appropriate freedom over capital spending is absolutely central if providers are to fulfil their responsibilities to deliver safe care, and not just safe care but care that provides for the locality in the way that is required—something the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, emphasised. The noble Lord, Lord Stevens, made the point that, although it is reasonable to have provisions in the Bill, what are the practical impact of those provisions and how extensive should they be? These are the questions which I believe we have before us, as articulated by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley.
Not only did we hear in the course of the debate that the Bill does not mirror the NHS England and NHS Improvement September 2019 legislative proposal, which is the bedrock of what we should be looking at, but we find in the Bill that the provision cuts entirely across the unequivocal position of the Health and Social Care Committee. It said that the power to set capital spending limits for foundation trusts
“should be used only as a last resort.”
I therefore hope that, in responding, the Minister will be able to explain to the Committee why the provisions in the Bill have not taken account of these important points, and points of agreement and good practice. I hope that he will reflect on the fact that these amendments improve the Bill and will feel able to take them forward.