UK Parliament / Open data

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

My Lords, it is interesting that the noble Lord thinks that I was referring to him. I said that the comments of noble Lords who equated this with the atrocities of Nazi Germany were, quite frankly, disgraceful. I did not name him. It is interesting that he thinks it might have been him to whom I was referring.

We have brought forward the measures in Part 4 because we understand the challenges that many locations across the country face when individuals cause significant damage, disruption or distress to communities, businesses and landowners. It is important to remember why we are introducing a new offence: to tackle individuals who cause significant harm. This could include unauthorised encampments within urban areas set up in local parks, car parks or on local sports fields. It could include fly-camping which is a huge problem within national parks and our natural beauty spots, where people park cars, campervans or motorhomes on land without permission and damage the land.

6.45 pm

It is also important that we consider the people impacted by these harms. I will provide two examples. During the summer, facilities at a recreational site in Highworth in Wiltshire were off limits due to a safety hazard caused by an unauthorised encampment that left behind human excrement. In the same month, a cricket club in the New Forest was forced to cancel its games after a lock on the gate to the pitch was cut and an unauthorised encampment was then set up. The pitch was damaged, rubbish was left behind—and it was the members of that club who had to deal with these consequences, and the fear that this could happen again, with no ramifications for those causing the harm.

The Welsh National Trust pointed out that a Carmarthenshire beauty spot continues to be blighted by problems of human waste, vandalism and unlawful overnight encampments. Just this year, campers with portable angle grinders recently cut the lock on the service access gate to a beach and set up camp on the landscape, leaving the beauty spot strewn with litter and waste. The beach and surrounding area have also been subject to illegal felling and overnight parties, and footpath gates and posts have been chopped up and used for campfires. These problems have been going on for several years. I ask noble Lords: should those who commit significant damage such as this get away with it?

As I have said throughout the passage of this Bill, these measures do not target the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. As such, we believe that the measures are compliant with the ECHR and Equality

Acts. I hope that the examples that I have given illustrate that. Enforcement will not be based on ethnicity or race; instead, the measures are focused on significant harms committed by anyone residing on land without permission.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked about the extent to which the proposals take into account the Women and Equalities Select Committee report. We remain committed to tackling the serious disparities faced by the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. We commend the value of the committee’s report and findings. We also seek to develop proposals addressing the levels of violence against women and girls. However, people engaging in harmful behaviours is a separate matter to the wider equalities strategy.

It is important to recognise that this is not a “catch all” piece of legislation; instead, the threshold for the new offence is high and is a proportionate means of addressing this issue. As such, there a few key points that I would like to clarify before I move on to the amendments. Setting up an unauthorised encampment in and of itself will not be a criminal offence. A person will not be caught by the offence if they leave the land when asked but will be caught if they return to the land. A person will not be caught by the offence—and this is the most important part—if they do not commit significant damage, disruption or distress. If they do commit damage, disruption or distress that is not significant, the amended powers under the existing Section 61 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 will come into play. These measures are therefore designed to proportionately deter and prevent particular behaviours.

I turn now to the amendments. Amendments 55ZA and 55ZB tabled by my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier and the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, have many overlapping features. They seek to provide that an offence is committed only when a person is trespassing on land having been offered a suitable pitch at a caravan site or negotiated stopping site. Site provision and harmful behaviours are two quite separate issues. On the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, the facts of the case will determine whether an excuse is reasonable—this will be for the police and courts to determine—but it is not open to Travellers to say that they have any reasonable excuse to destroy property or land. There is no justification whatever for causing significant harm, disruption or distress. The lack of availability of a pitch, be it on a permanent authorised site or a negotiated stopping site, can never be an excuse for such conduct.

As I said, the fact of the unauthorised encampment is not in and of itself an offence. If significant harms are being caused, it is only right that the police have powers to tackle those harms, and those harms should incur enforcement action in the way that any other harmful behaviour would.

My noble and learned friend’s amendment goes one step further and would require local authorities to pay landowners for any damages caused by people on unauthorised encampments in areas where there are no other suitable sites. This would give a message to those who commit harmful behaviours that they should not worry about any repercussions as the local authority

will pay for the damage caused. This is not a message that this, or, I believe, any Government, would want to send out.

Amendment 57, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, would delay the implementation of the measures and potentially allow cases of significant harm to continue until there is a report and a debate in each House that discusses how Part 4 contributes to the level of entrenched inequality experienced by Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. She knows that I do not accept the premise of the amendment. I know why she has tabled it: namely, that these measures contribute to the inequalities experienced by GRT communities. As I said, the debate around inequalities and site provision is separate to the issue at hand, which is dealing with significant harms.

To get to the point that the noble Baroness is actually making, which is on the GRT strategy, she will be even less impressed by me tonight when I say that Ministers are currently developing their priorities with regard to the strategy. The levelling-up agenda will see opportunities increase for everyone by improving livelihoods across the country, supported through schemes such as the GRT education areas pilot fund and the levelling-up fund. I am afraid I have no more to add than I did last time: that my ministerial colleagues are currently developing their priorities around the work of the GRT strategy. Until that work has been completed, it is too soon to say what will be included in the strategy. I thought she might shake her head.

Amendment 55ZC, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, would exclude vehicles that are a person’s home from the seizure power found in Clause 63, which enables property to be seized from individuals committing an offence under these new provisions. Seizure powers are not novel when it comes to enforcement action against unauthorised encampments. They are already conferred on the police in relation to a person’s failure to comply with a police direction to leave land under the trespass provisions in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. It is right that the police should have an equivalent power in the context of the new criminal offence, where the level of harm is significant, for the offence to be committed before police would consider using, and are able to use, seizure powers.

As I said, if people do not commit significant harms or if they leave when asked, they will not be caught by the offence and will not risk having their vehicle seized. Without the power to seize vehicles, enforcement action is likely to be hindered and the harms can continue while people and their property, including their vehicles, remain on the land.

Police decisions to seize vehicles should continue to be taken in consultation with the local authority where appropriate. As is the case for existing powers, to which these new measures add, the local authority would need, where possible, to offer assurance that it has relevant measures in place to meet any welfare and safeguarding needs of those affected by the loss of their accommodation, particularly the vulnerable, before police take enforcement action. We expect the police to continue to undertake any enforcement action in compliance with their obligations with regard to equalities and human rights, and will continue to consider harm

to local amenities and the local environment, and the rights of nearby residents, when coming to a view as to appropriate enforcement action.

Finally, Amendment 55AA would reintroduce a statutory duty on local authorities to provide authorised sites for Gypsies, Roma and Travellers. As I said in a previous debate, site provision and the issue of how we deal with people who cause harm are two separate matters and should not be conflated. The Government’s aim more generally is to increase the provision of Traveller sites in appropriate locations and to maintain an appropriate level of supply, but that should not hinder the introduction of these important powers to safeguard individuals and their property from harm.

The planning system, taken as a whole, is capable of meeting the needs of the Travelling community. It is designed so that the land use and accommodation requirements of all groups, including those who lead a nomadic life, are considered by local planning authorities. Local authorities and social housing providers are able to bid through the £11.5 billion affordable homes programme for funding for new sites. In addition, a statutory duty to provide sites would not be aligned with the current planning system, which does not impose statutory duties on local planning authorities to provide housing or specialist accommodation for any demographic, including those who require affordable housing, and older people.

A number of noble Lords raised the success of negotiated stopping sites in Leeds, an issue touched on in Amendments 55ZA and 55ZB. Again, this is for local authorities to make a decision on. Negotiated stopping sites are not a planning designation, but a local practical agreement between the local authority and Travellers as to where they can reside for a temporary period.

The noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, has discussed the issue of liaison committees with me. I will take that suggestion forward to my colleagues in DLUHC for their consideration. I am quite happy to be part of those discussions.

The arguments for or against the provisions in Clause 63 come down to one issue and one issue only: is it acceptable for a person to take their vehicle on to other peoples’ land without their permission and cause significant damage, disruption or distress? I know the answer that the British people would give to that question. If noble Lords vote through any of the amendments in this group, those who do so would send a clear message that such behaviour is acceptable. I therefore ask my noble and learned friend to withdraw his amendment.

About this proceeding contribution

Reference

817 cc71-4 

Session

2021-22

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Back to top