My Lords, I start by answering one of the Minister’s questions: what would constitute evidence? The answer is: the same kind of evidence that was sufficiently persuasive for the Government to include sport and religion in this definition. I would expect it to be on exactly that level, bearing in mind the context, the professional relationship and how it operated.
I start where I agree with the Minister. We are not seeking to change the age of consent in this legislation; it would be the wrong place to attempt such a thing, even if there were strong arguments for doing so. What should determine the position that the law provides in this area should not be the selection of certain sports because there appears to be more or less numerical evidence of abuse; nor should it be an attempt to import some new age of consent; it should be on the same basis, whichever area of activity we are talking about.
The Minister said something very interesting which will cause us to reflect between now and Report. He said that, in the Government’s view, dance—or ballet, at any rate—is included. There is a compelling argument for that, which is one of the reasons I was inspired to put down this amendment in the first place. This is a very physical activity during which people who are themselves very skilled at it have to explain—and sometimes demonstrate or assist those they are teaching—some quite extraordinarily physical things. That is done by hundreds and thousands of ballet teachers, and has been for many years, with total propriety, but it is a context in which abuse can occur. In that respect, as the Minister obviously realised, it resembles the kind of definition he brought to bear for sport.
I agree also that there is a balance between, on the one hand, defining a position of responsibility and placing responsibilities and limitations on someone who has such a position, and, on the other, interfering with the rights of 16 and 17 year-olds who have reached the age of consent. My noble friend Lord Paddick highlighted the difficulties in achieving that balance when he pointed out that we would hardly welcome a situation in which it was generally accepted as okay for someone in that kind of professional relationship to continue a sexual relationship when attention was drawn to it. We would mostly expect the professional person to believe that they had to end the relationship, even if it were entirely consensual.
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We also have to recognise a dynamic in the situations that I have described, in which the kind of authority that the Minister attributed to people with a religious position of responsibility also applies to someone who has a powerful teaching role in a very close and physical activity. There is a dynamic. I make what might sound like a flippant point, but it is not entirely flippant: if the Minister has a look at “Strictly Come Dancing” one Saturday night he might begin to understand something of what I am talking about.
The Minister has failed to convince me, and I suspect some others in the House, that you can solve this problem by simply defining two areas where you think there is a particular problem and ignoring all the others. I do not want to load the arts world or the sporting world with a set of conditions that are not proportionate to the problem—or religion, for that matter, where I am an office-holder and would be subject to some of these provisions. I want sensible provisions that afford protection from the abuse of a professional relationship—something achieved quite readily in many contexts because the person concerned is part of an institution that has its own rules; but, in individual tuition, that may not be so.
The Minister has not persuaded us even that he has worked out a good basis for deciding when to use the Henry VIII power to add new responsibilities. At least, he has not given us a very clear picture; in fact, he has tended to imply that there are almost no circumstances in which that power might be used. This is a pretty unsatisfactory situation but the Minister has very sincerely addressed it and, indeed, widened the definition in the course of the debate. So, I think we have more to work on before Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.