I was going to come to the detail of pre-sentence reports a little later. Let me come to that and if the question is still alive, I will give way again.
I think I had completed what I was going to say about data, apart from one point. The right reverend Prelate asked about pregnancy data. In the time I have had available, I have been able to get the following response, but I am obviously happy to continue the conversation. In July this year, we published a national figure—for the first time, as I understand it—for self-declared pregnancies in the women’s estate and the total number of births that took place during the period in three categories: prisons, transit and hospital. That is found in the HMPPS Annual Digest. I do not know whether that has fully answered the question from the right reverend Prelate on specific data. If it has not, I am very happy to continue the discussion.
6 pm
The noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, made a point which takes me to pre-sentence reports. He said that the critical thing is the information which the judge has when sentencing. The legislation as it currently stands asks the court to obtain a pre-sentence report in all cases unless the court deems it unnecessary. The Sentencing Act 2020 states that
“the court must obtain and consider a pre-sentence report before forming the opinion unless, in the circumstances of the case, it considers that it is unnecessary to obtain a pre-sentence report.”
Therefore, anybody can identify the need for a pre-sentence report, whether it is the court duty officer, defence solicitor, legal adviser, the judge, or the Bench, but obviously, only the judge or the Bench can order one.
However, it may not always be required to get a pre-sentence report. For example, the guidance on pre-sentence reports recommends that where one has been completed within the last six months, that might be presented again with an oral update, to provide information on any change in circumstances and offence analysis. Where a pre-sentence report has been completed within a year, more detailed consideration would be required, given the time that has elapsed. We have committed to pursuing a target of 75% of all disposals receiving a pre-sentence report in the target operating model for the new model of probation. We are very alive to the fact that pre-sentence reports may be all the more important when talking about primary carers or other vulnerable groups.
I should not sit down without underlining a point that was made by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, that judges at the sharp end should be given credit for understanding the position. It is fair to say—let me choose my words carefully; I do not wish to disrespect former judges—that there has been a revolution, a real sea change, in the judiciary. They really “get it” when it comes to female offenders and primary carers. This is one of the reasons why we have a low percentage of women in prison now which continues to fall. I suggest that it is not unconnected with a more diverse and better-trained judiciary. The judiciary should get a large measure of thanks for its work in this regard.
I conclude by returning to two points made by the right reverend Prelate. First, inconsistency in sentencing was put as a complaint. There must be a balance between sentencing appropriately in each case and sentencing within clear guidelines. There will be a range of sentences, and some inconsistency is not necessarily a bad thing. We do not want to get into a straitjacket of sentencing.
The right reverend Prelate also referred to an event which she hosted recently in the River Room, at which Chloe, a recent offender, spoke. I was at that event. Chloe’s speech was incredibly powerful. The right reverend Prelate used the word “Shalom”—meaning peace, because you make whole. It has another meaning which may be relevant in this context: it also means to pay, because when you pay, you complete a transaction. At the heart of this debate is balancing those two things: making the offender whole—rehabilitation—while recognising that there will be some cases where the offender must pay a debt to society that in some cases requires custody.
For those reasons, I hope that the right reverend Prelate will be persuaded to withdraw the amendment.