UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Bill

My Lords, I declare my interest as the elected and serving police and crime commissioner for Leicester, Leicestershire and Rutland. I have been in that post for nearly five years now but in three months’ time, if the 6 May elections take place as the Government propose, I will no longer have this interest to declare. I look forward to once again playing a greater role in your Lordships’ House.

However, when, as in this Bill, issues of delicate constitutional importance arise—issues that affect the relationship between the state, in the guise of the Home Secretary and the police, and the individual, in the guise here of the reasonably suspected person—surely it is important to examine with great care, as this House always does and clearly has done today, the implications for the rule of law and individual liberty. That is why I put my name to my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath’s Amendment 31, which, strangely, is in this group.

Amendment 31 suggests a practical and sensible way forward—one that balances the interests of all involved, I would argue. It suggests a role for police and crime commissioners that seems entirely appropriate and consistent with the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011. When the coalition Government proposed the setting up of what I will call PCCs, they deliberately gave them considerable responsibilities and powers. Not only were they described as the “local policing body”; the Policing Protocol Order 2011 insisted that police and crime commissioners had a role in the “totality of policing”. Sometimes, it seems as though the then Government’s intentions, as contained in the Act passed by Parliament, have not always been fulfilled by succeeding Governments, who, although keen to support the legislation, seem to draw back from some of its consequences. I very much hope that the way in which the Minister deals with this amendment will show that I am wrong.

Of course, we all agree that strong powers are needed to protect society from those who would use, aid or support terrorism to get their own way. In this Bill, there is an obvious intention to strengthen the power of the state against the individual, pointed out repeatedly by noble Lords from all sides. This involves

the removal of basic safeguards, as we have heard today: first, the need for there merely to be reasonable suspicion, rather than proof of a balance of probabilities, and, secondly, the open-ended nature of a TPIM. The dangers of that last approach were referred to by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, in the context of recent public prevention legislation. Immense executive power attaches to the Home Secretary and the police, who are tasked with TPIM powers.

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The argument for this amendment is straightforward. Would it not be preferable for extended powers at least to be balanced by a practical step that, while not putting anybody at risk, can satisfy the need to ensure that another voice is heard—that of the elected police and crime commissioner, who is there to represent all those who live in the force area? We were reminded at Second Reading by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester that support in the community is our strongest force against extremism. Police and crime commissioners are there to represent their communities. They already do so in pretty sensitive areas, such as stop and search. Why should they not play a role in this area too?

As my noble friend Lord Hunt said in moving Amendment 31, no one is suggesting that the police will not play the major role. Police and crime commissioners’ role would be limited but significant. The police and crime commissioner’s six-monthly report on a TPIM would set out an assessment of the impact of enforcing the TPIM on efficiency and effectiveness. It would also look at public confidence in the TPIM and its efficacy in securing the prevention and detection of crime.

My noble friend was right to point out that police and crime commissioners can add significant value in this process. It is exactly the sort of role that Parliament and the Government intended police and crime commissioners to play when the 2011 Act was before us. It is a role that they play in other sensitive areas. Why should they not play a role here when community reassurance is so crucial to the success, or otherwise, of this policy?

About this proceeding contribution

Reference

810 cc288-9 

Session

2019-21

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
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