My Lords, again I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. First, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, that I am sorry if he felt disobliged by anybody. To him and to any other noble Lord who wishes to discuss an amendment to a piece of legislation, I say that as long as I am at this Dispatch Box, my door is open to any noble Lord of any party who wishes to discuss a matter before the House. I was glad of the opportunity to talk to him. It is unfortunate, from his point of view and that of other noble Lords who have spoken, that amiable conversation does not always lead to identity of view.
I will not, at this late hour, repeat to the House the fundamental arguments as to why the Government are opposed to additional protected constituencies; I point out merely that had it been the policy of the Government to entertain protected constituencies beyond the islands we have discussed—and the Government did show flexibility in relation to Wales, with the decision on Ynys Môn—and had the Government been open to protect a particular constituency, I have no doubt that your Lordships would have been detained by not two or three but 40 or 50 amendments claiming due protection for different parts of our United Kingdom. Saying that is not to disparage in any way the passion, knowledge and commitment with which this amendment was argued
—as, indeed, was the earlier amendment on Cornwall. I resisted the amendment on Cornwall for the same reasons.
I will add briefly some comments on the two amendments. This evening noble Lords again repeated arguments that were put in Grand Committee relating to the challenges associated with the size of large rural constituencies. We heard again tonight from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, what the noble Lord, Lord Hain, said in Grand Committee: it takes two hours to drive from one end of Brecon and Radnorshire to the other. The noble Lord said, I think, that the Prime Minister could drive across his constituency in 10 minutes. I wonder if that is still the case, judging by the appalling delays being inflicted by Mayor Sadiq Khan on drivers in London currently.
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Be that as it may, I recognise that rural constituencies present challenges. However, as my noble friend Lord Blencathra said in Committee, these can be overcome, particularly in an age of technological change. I respect the love for these communities that has been expressed in the House tonight, and I understand the factors involved. Living in a large rural area is certainly different from living in a crowded city, and not only in terms of travel and transport. Is that, however, a reason to give one voter greater influence than another in choosing the Government? If it is, then we could not stop just at Brecon and Radnorshire and Montgomeryshire. Five constituencies in Scotland are between one and a half and four times the size of Brecon and Radnorshire. My noble friend Lord Blencathra also reminded us that his former constituency in the Lake District was larger than Brecon and Radnorshire, with comparably difficult terrain to contend with.
By protecting Brecon and Radnorshire, and Montgomeryshire, we would implicitly be inviting a demand to protect Ross, Skye and Lochaber; Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross; Argyll and Bute; Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey; and Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale—just to mention constituencies in Scotland. That would seriously affect our overall aim of voter equality.
I take the point about islands—as I drive across the Menai bridge I feel that I am entering an island. The current protected constituencies share common characteristics: they are exclusively islands with sizeable surface areas and electorates. Brecon and Radnorshire and Mongomeryshire, like Cornwall, do not share these characteristics.
I will not repeat the arguments about Welsh representation and the Union. I made those—I hope with some force—in relation to an earlier group, but I underline that we believe that Wales’s representation is strong and the Union is best served by equality of representation in this United Kingdom Parliament.
The Government are committed to delivering equal and updated constituencies so that UK electors can be confident that their votes are of equal strength. Each additional protected constituency affects the underlying principle of equally sized constituencies, whether it is 5%—the Government will respectfully reflect on what the House has said about that—or a higher number.
The Boundary Commissions have substantial flexibility in the existing system and the responsibility to look at a number of the factors raised this evening.
For these reasons and those I addressed in relation to Cornwall—an equally loved part of our United Kingdom —the Government will resist the amendment, and I hope that the noble Lord feels able to withdraw it.