UK Parliament / Open data

Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 19 February 2019, in the House of Lords, led by Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford.
Lords committee stage first day. Amendments discussed and withdrawn. Other amendments not moved. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed. (Part one of two).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

795 cc2165-2223 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee thirty-ninth report.
Wednesday, 14 November 2018
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill 2017-19. Brought from the Commons.
Tuesday, 22 January 2019
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee (HL) forty-seventh report.
Wednesday, 13 February 2019
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill. Constitution Committee (HL) eighteenth report.
Monday, 18 February 2019
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (5)
Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill
Tuesday, 19 February 2019
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2165 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Thornton

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 3, leave out “outside the United...

Baroness Thornton | 795 cc2166-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by welcoming the Minister to her first experience of the House of Lords in Comm...


Show all contributions (84)
Lord Patel | 795 cc2168-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before addressing the amendments in my name and the names of my noble and learned frien...

Lord Judge | 795 cc2169-2172 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this should be Brexit legislation. If it were, in accordance with the withdrawal agreem...

Baroness Jolly | 795 cc2171-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her letter, but I rather feel that it posed as many questions ...

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 795 cc2173-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I apologise to the Committee for not having been able to speak at Second Reading...

Lord Ribeiro | 795 c2174 (Link to this contribution)

One can see why, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lad...

Lord Lisvane | 795 cc2174-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to welcome the new noble Baroness to the Front Bench and I echo ...

Lord Cormack | 795 cc2175-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I associate myself entirely with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane. We have b...

Baroness Andrews | 795 cc2177-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I welcome the Minister. I will not add to her burdens by trying to find another ...

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 cc2179-2181 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps noble Lords will allow me to follow the noble Baroness, given that she made specific refe...

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2181 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, is helping the Minister in his exposition....

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 c2181 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the reason is that the statute by which we are able to strike reciprocal healthcare agr...

Lord Winston | 795 c2181 (Link to this contribution)

I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, who we feel did a great job w...

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 cc2181-2 (Link to this contribution)

That is a separate issue. As I said at the beginning, the issue here is actually in two parts. Th...

Baroness Andrews | 795 c2182 (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble Lord’s personal assurances on that. Who could disagree with what he has just sai...

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 cc2182-3 (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble Baroness’s point but the critical thing here is that the powers set out in the B...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 cc2183-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a compendious group of amendments to a Bill that may appear simple but is made ...

Lord Wilson of Dinton | 795 cc2184-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I assure the Minister that my comments, which are very much in support of the noble and...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc2185-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I believe it falls to me to be a back-marker. I can be brief, not least because I agree...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2187 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord accept that all Parliament can do to treaties is withhold agreement in the Ho...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc2187-8 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord invites me to go on about a subject that I anticipate Report stage of the Trade Bi...

Baroness Brinton | 795 cc2188-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will comment on a couple of points from a political perspective. We have heard from a...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2189-2190 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is not often that one rises to speak for the first time in Committee in the presence...

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2190 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister’s colleague in the Commons said exactly that: it was a trade Bill.

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2190-1 (Link to this contribution)

He may have said that, but I have clarified this point with the department, the Secretary of Stat...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2191-3 (Link to this contribution)

There would be significant challenges to a reciprocal healthcare agreement with the United States...

Baroness Thornton | 795 cc2193-4 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the Minister on her summing up and answers. As these things go, it was absolutely ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2194 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to my noble friend that I was not here earlier, due to travel difficulties—

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2194 (Link to this contribution)

It is in order to ask a question during Committee.

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2194 (Link to this contribution)

As much as I admire and love my noble friend, he should probably not intervene at this moment, bu...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2194 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

4: Clause 2, page 1, line 11, leave out subse...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 cc2194-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group contains two amendments. Amendment 4 is in my name and the names of the nobl...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2196 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has quite rightly referred to the existing countries—Australia, Bosnia-Herzegovina...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 cc2196-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for that intervention: I did not know the facts about the involvement of ...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2197 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I am getting a bit confused here. By what mechanism does the Bill, which provides...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2197 (Link to this contribution)

It simply does: you can make a healthcare arrangement with countries outside the United Kingdom i...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2197 (Link to this contribution)

I do not mean to badger the noble Lord, but this is simply not true. The power in the Bill relate...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

That does not, as I understand it, prevent the Government offering other countries access to the ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 3(b) concerns,

“healthcare provided in the United Kingdom, payments in respect of wh...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

I object to what the noble Lord has said: I am not involved in private healthcare in any sense. N...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I make no aspersions on either the motivation or the interests of the noble Lord, Lord ...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

With respect to the noble Lord, we are having the debate now. I have read the Bill, and reading i...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2198 (Link to this contribution)

It is right that Clause 1 allows the Secretary of State to make payments out, but the point is th...

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 c2199 (Link to this contribution)

This is a reciprocal healthcare Bill, after all. Let us separate out the point that the noble Lor...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2199 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes the point that whatever innocuous motivations may be expressed by Ministers ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 c2199 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Marks, is very kind in giving way. It may be helpful if I clarify. The Bill ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 cc2199-2200 (Link to this contribution)

That is a helpful intervention. It brings me back to the point that all that Parliament can do un...

Baroness Fookes | 795 c2200 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I point out that if Amendment 4 is agreed, I cannot call Amendment 5 by reason of pre-e...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 795 cc2200-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I listened to the first part of the debate today, and I add my welcome to the Minister ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 cc2201-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, and accept his assurance, which was given ...

Baroness Thornton | 795 cc2202-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I intend to speak to Amendment 10 in my name. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Marks, and t...

Earl of Dundee | 795 c2203 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, within this grouping I support Amendment 10, spoken to just now by the noble Baroness, ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 c2204 (Link to this contribution)

I offer my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Marks, the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and my noble ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2204 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness said that no money was exchanged in the case of New Zealand and Australia. So ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 c2204 (Link to this contribution)

It is done through waiver agreements.

Longer-term rights would also be guaranteed for those...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2204 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness said that this was done through waiver agreements. If they work through waiver...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2204-6 (Link to this contribution)

We have relatively simple agreements with these countries that do not allow for the level of comp...

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2206 (Link to this contribution)

I am quite happy to accept that this may be a faulty amendment—but that is allowed in Committee. ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2206-7 (Link to this contribution)

Under a withdrawal deal, reciprocal healthcare is protected. Under the no-deal scenario with memb...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 cc2207-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I propose to withdraw the amendment at this stage. We have had a lively debate, and I a...

Baroness Wheeler | 795 c2208 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Wheeler

6: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert—

“(2A) Reg...

Baroness Wheeler | 795 cc2208-2210 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am moving Amendment 6 in the name of my noble friend Lady Thornton. The amendment wou...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 795 c2210 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the amendment in my name and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton....

Earl of Dundee | 795 cc2210-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 9 in this group, which, as the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 c2211 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is very little I can add to what my friend the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, said. If ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2211-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for moving Amendment 6 in the names of the no...

Baroness Wheeler | 795 cc2212-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for their contributions. It is hard to see how the ECJ will not have some kin...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2213 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lansley

7: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert—

“( ) Regulati...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc2213-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps it is my turn now to try to mark the Government’s card on the use of these powe...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2215 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. It might have been part of the backstop agreement in the old days, I do not know.

The ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 795 cc2215-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is encouraging that on this occasion the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, and I are on the ...

Earl of Dundee | 795 cc2217-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this group, I support Amendments 18 and 19, which were addressed by the noble Lord, ...

Baroness Jolly | 795 c2218 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at Second Reading I spoke about Northern Ireland. All noble Lords will be aware that th...

Baroness Thornton | 795 cc2218-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall briefly reply to the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly. I think the nob...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 795 c2219 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendments in this group. They go to the very heart of the human aspect o...

Lord O'Shaughnessy | 795 cc2219-2220 (Link to this contribution)

I shall follow the theme expounded by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and talk about Northern Ir...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 cc2220-2 (Link to this contribution)

I offer my thanks to my noble friend Lord Lansley for his Amendments 7 and 8, to the noble Barone...

Baroness Thornton | 795 c2221 (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble Baroness mind repeating the part of her answer that referred to overlapping compe...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 795 c2221 (Link to this contribution)

I simply said that two amendments on devolution have been tabled, so we will be discussing that i...

Lord Lansley | 795 c2221 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to my noble friend. Her response has given reassurance. She is quite right to ...

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