UK Parliament / Open data

Trade Bill

Lords committee stage second day. New clauses discussed and withdrawn. Clauses 3 to 5 agreed. Part 1 of 2.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

795 cc708-764 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Trade Bill 2017-19. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 18 July 2018
Bills
House of Lords
Trade Bill
Wednesday, 23 January 2019
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0102
Wednesday, 23 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0124
Tuesday, 29 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Show all related items (10)
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0126
Tuesday, 29 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0127
Monday, 28 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0129
Monday, 28 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0130
Monday, 28 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0131
Monday, 28 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2019-0135
Monday, 28 January 2019
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c708 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

16: After Clause 2, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc708-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 16 in my name deals with state aid and whether it will continue under any new...


Show all contributions (109)
Viscount Trenchard | 795 cc709-710 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is rather strange in the context of this Bill. It seems intended to rest...

Lord Fox | 795 c710 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, had we debated this amendment during the last session, the night before last, we would ...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc710-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I understand the point the noble Lord is making and exploring on this issue, and when w...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 795 c711 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, a couple of the points made in the short debate on this amendment have been very wide a...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 795 c712 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, following the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, in moving this amendment, I w...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 795 cc712-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 16, which is a crucial amendment to debate within the Trade Bill. T...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c713 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I seek some clarifications when the Minister responds, broadly in response to the const...

Lord Bates | 795 cc713-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I join others in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for moving this amendment. In...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c714 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to ask the Minister about the TRA—I am glad that he tried to clarify what he had said...

Lord Bates | 795 c715 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct. I am grateful to the noble Lord for setting that out. My noble friend Lord Trenc...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify that since the Sewel convention continues to apply, the UK would not le...

Lord Bates | 795 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I could write to the noble Lord on that to make sure that I get that absolutely correct. ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c715 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if the Minister is able to write before we get to the next grouping because this is goin...

Lord Bates | 795 c715 (Link to this contribution)

I have a sneaking feeling that some clarification may be coming via my noble friend Lord Younger ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c716 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to all those who have contributed to this debate. It was indeed a probing amendment...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c716 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

17: After Clause 2, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc716-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are moving to a point that has already been raised and given a small trailer by the ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 cc717-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for outlining the amendments so clearl...

Lord Hain | 795 cc718-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in speaking in support of both these amendments, in a way I am dealing with the points ...

Viscount Trenchard | 795 c719 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, surely it is not necessary to set up a joint ministerial committee for this purpose. In...

Lord Hain | 795 cc719-720 (Link to this contribution)

May I clarify a number of points? First, the original Bill, over which there was the power-grab t...

Viscount Trenchard | 795 c720 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for correcting my ignorance about the joint ministerial committee already ...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 795 cc720-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is redolent of what we discussed much earlier. The powers that the EU has in the U...

Lord Hain | 795 c721 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for prolonging this discussion. I urge the Government to reflect on this: given the t...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 795 cc721-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Committee will notice that we have another change of driver—or perhaps a navigator ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c722 (Link to this contribution)

On the first point, it is very helpful to hear about discussions taking place through ministerial...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 795 c722 (Link to this contribution)

I can help the noble Lord. I was very careful to use the word “forum”—but perhaps I should have u...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c722 (Link to this contribution)

I am on the same page as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. Why is it so complicated? The joint ministe...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 795 c723 (Link to this contribution)

We may be dealing with semantics here, but I will certainly write to the noble Lord, Lord Stevens...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful that the Minister will be providing a letter. As the Commons committee and others h...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 795 cc723-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will certainly address the extra points that the noble Lord has made. The point I want to empha...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc724-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that full reply. I am looking forward to the letters, which I w...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c725 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Purvis of Tweed

18: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause—

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 cc725-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will also speak to Amendment 19 in this group. At Second Reading of this Bill, the Mi...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 795 c727 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when I first came to your Lordships’ House just over five years ago, I found some of th...

Lord Fox | 795 c727 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the irony of this is that, if the EU was pursuing this activity, it would have to make ...

Lord Patten of Barnes | 795 cc727-9 (Link to this contribution)

Could I just add to the points made by noble Lords? All this has been said before, when we discus...

Baroness Hooper | 795 c729 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, your Lordships’ House has the privilege of having as Members a number of former Europea...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c729 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will address Amendment 18 first. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, and al...

Baroness Kramer | 795 c729 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, could I ask the Minister for clarification? Has she just said that she believes that, 1...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c730 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, for the further question, and will try to reassure her. ...

Lord Fox | 795 c730 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think anyone on these Benches has said that the UK Government should be holding the othe...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c730 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the noble Lord that we are actively working and engaging with them. It is for them to de...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 795 c730 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Baroness goes on to the next amendment, could she answer a question that I asked...

Viscount Hailsham | 795 c731 (Link to this contribution)

“I will write to the noble Lord”?

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c731 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will try to do a little better than that. I can write to clarify, but my understandin...

Baroness Kramer | 795 c731 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I must repeat a point that has been made by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and o...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c731 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the noble Baroness has misinterpreted what I said. I did not say that we would wai...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 795 c732 (Link to this contribution)

May I try asking the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, another way round? Are the Gover...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c732 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can confirm that that is why we want to have an agreement with an implementation peri...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to have one final go on Amendment 18. It is predicated on what the Government are working ...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 cc732-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I may address the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, if we leave with a deal...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c733 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise, but can the Minister then confirm whether my understanding is wrong? I understand th...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 cc733-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, what I can say is that all the countries we have spoken to have agreed with the princip...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 795 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister familiar with the practice in the European Parliament which currently applies? Th...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c734 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I know the European process in outline; I cannot say that I understand it in the depth ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c734 (Link to this contribution)

I go back to an earlier question asked by the noble Lord, about whether or not the Government are...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c735 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on the 11.01 pm—or one minute past midnight—point, technical notices have already been ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 cc735-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and to noble Lords who have taken part. The Minister said...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have to rebut the statement made by the noble Lord that it would enhance relations wi...

Baroness Kramer | 795 c736 (Link to this contribution)

All these countries have negotiated deals with the EU. In the process of those negotiations, ther...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c737 (Link to this contribution)

Again, when countries are in the middle of negotiations, blow-by-blow accounts or reporting stage...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c737 (Link to this contribution)

One element that concerns us is when Ministers move seamlessly from saying that this is merely a ...

Baroness Henig | 795 c737 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Henig

20: Clause 3, page 3, line 39, at end insert—

“( ) A re...

Baroness Henig | 795 cc738-740 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 20 and speak to Amendment 21. Both amendments touch on the imp...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c740 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend has done us a great service in introducing this amendment with consider...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 795 c740 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should have stood up earlier, but I was being polite. It seems the system set out in ...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 c741 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I begin by addressing Amendment 20, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Henig. The Gover...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c741 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if the Minister might just be able to clarify what may be my misreading of the legislati...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 cc741-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the change is literally a cut and paste, I am not sure it would help your Lordships ...

Baroness Henig | 795 c743 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened very carefully to what the Minister has said. I take the point about sp...

Baroness Henig | 795 c744 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Henig

22: Clause 4, page 4, line 10, at end insert “and Ministers h...

Baroness Henig | 795 c744 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be extremely brief—I am sure that noble Lords will be happy about that—in moving...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc744-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, once again I support the amendments of my noble friend Lady Henig; I will also speak ag...

Baroness Fairhead | 795 cc745-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too will try to give a short response to the amendments before us, and first on Amend...

Baroness Henig | 795 c746 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her response, and particularly for the additional information that she h...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc746-7 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara

24: After Clause 5, insert the following new Cla...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c747 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment, for which I am grateful for the support of the noble Lords, Lord Patten...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 795 cc747-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can be very brief in supporting this amendment, which has my name on it. Saying that ...

Lord Patten of Barnes | 795 cc748-751 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to support this amendment—although I realise that happiness is a relative concept. We ...

Bishop of Chester | 795 cc751-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Patten of Barnes, especially ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 cc752-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that the Government will listen to what the noble Lord, Lord Patten, said in his...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 795 c755 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening to this brilliant speech, and I am just wondering whether I can believe my ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c755 (Link to this contribution)

It is. Ultimately, I believe that the choice is going to be that we either stay in the customs un...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc755-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to go on at length about this issue, not least because I agree so wholehe...

Baroness Kramer | 795 c757 (Link to this contribution)

I am trying to understand the noble Lord. Obviously, the definition of a customs union is quite d...

Lord Lansley | 795 cc757-8 (Link to this contribution)

When I talk about a customs union, I mean—as the WTO would interpret it—where we share a customs ...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 795 c758 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will not go into the matter of the definite or the indefinite article, which I think ...

Bishop of Chester | 795 c758 (Link to this contribution)

Could I check with the noble Lord: is he agreeing with me that the political declaration actually...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 795 cc758-9 (Link to this contribution)

That question should perhaps be addressed to the Prime Minster, who might find some difficulty an...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 795 cc759-760 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not convinced of the merit of this amendment. Actually, I have taken comfort from ...

Viscount Ridley | 795 c760 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to be brief, as some others have put it, and with the greatest of respect, as the noble...

Lord Liddle | 795 cc760-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will briefly express my support for the amendment. It is very important in the presen...

Lord Bates | 795 c761 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a fascinating debate. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, was very brief and ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

The Government’s position, already stated, is that it intends the future customs arrangement to b...

Lord Bates | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

We have been very clear about this; we want a deep and special facilitated trading arrangement wi...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

A brilliant description of the disadvantages of being stuck in a backstop.

Lord Bates | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

That is the reason why we want to avoid the backstop.

Lord Liddle | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the best alternative way of benefiting from the growth outside the mature economies of wes...

Lord Bates | 795 c762 (Link to this contribution)

Because 17.4 million people decided that they wanted to leave, and that is what the Government ar...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 795 cc762-3 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, I wonder whether he could advance this clarity. The noble Baroness...

Lord Bates | 795 c763 (Link to this contribution)

The committee will come to rules of origin shortly, but on that point, that is the reason why, in...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 cc763-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is impossible to summarise what has been a very wide-ranging discussion. It certainl...

Viscount Ridley | 795 c764 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has mentioned size twice. Can he explain why Chile, which is a smaller country tha...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c764 (Link to this contribution)

Maybe Dr Fox has an analogue that we do not know about, hopping around. “I do not know” is the an...

Lord Patten of Barnes | 795 c764 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can help the noble Lord. One reason why Chile has such good agreements around the world...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 795 c764 (Link to this contribution)

In a spirit of mutual congratulation, I think it best to say that on this occasion we will withdr...

Legislation

Trade Bill 2017-19
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