My Lords, Amendment 26 is in my name and is part of this group. I had very much hoped not to speak in Committee, or bring forward an amendment, as I had hoped that the problems that the Bill poses for the sale of second-hand Northumbrian pipes bought entirely legally in the first place would have been addressed at earlier stages, even in the other place. However, I do wish to speak to my amendment today, and it may be helpful if I put on record once again the fact that I am president of the Northumbrian Pipers’ Society. This is a role that involves no financial payment whatever, and although I do own two sets of pipes, neither of the sets contains any ivory. At Second Reading I explained some of my concern about the Bill’s provisions while strongly giving the Bill my overall support. In fact, I have been in favour of an ivory ban for many years and it is somewhat upsetting to be suspected of not supporting a ban simply for raising a rather narrow issue and a valid concern.
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In rereading the debate at Second Reading I detected a misunderstanding about the pipes in the remarks of my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch, to which I want to draw attention, when she described the pipes as “domestic, not commercial instruments”. It is true that during the debate I described the pipes as a domestic instrument, but I meant simply to underline the point that they are normally played indoors, in a domestic setting. I did not want to imply that they are not a commercial instrument, because the pipes can be bought and sold and can be hired out. Accordingly, therefore, they are very much affected by this legislation, even though pipes bought entirely legally risk becoming valueless and removed from the market for purchase or hire at a time when we have a market for pipes and new pipes are in very short supply, simply because pipe makers are now, sadly, in short supply. Some have retired and some have, sadly, passed on, so the market is particularly dependent on second-hand pipes being available for sale or hire.
My noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch said in the debate that the pipes could of course be gifted, and that is true, but it seems unjust that pipers who bought pipes legally are simply going to be banned from selling or hiring them in the future. Again at Second Reading the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, who is in his place, said that,
“elephants win over business and wealth”—[Official Report, 17/7/18; col. 1184]—
a view with which I have a great deal of sympathy. I assure him that the majority of Northumbrian pipers I have met are not rich. If he, the Minister, or indeed my noble friends doubt my word, I can invite them to meet many pipers of my acquaintance. Indeed, I chaired a recent annual general meeting of the pipers’ society and the members’ concern at the legislation was very evident on that occasion.
Two specific points were made that I want to bring to the attention of the Minister and my noble friends. The percentage requirements do not really work in the case of the Northumbrian pipes. What is perhaps more worrying is that there does not seem to be much evidence that anyone in government has looked seriously at the issue of percentages in relation to the Northumbrian pipes. At Second Reading I asked the Minister specifically about percentages and how they were arrived at but I did not get a reply to that specific point, although I recognise that the Minister did address many of the points that were made. There do not seem to be any guidelines about the pipes. Given their unique nature, the existing exemptions, as far as I can see, do not seem to help. If the Government would at least examine the problem with representatives of the pipers’ society, that at least would be an important start. Officials who have been responsible for drafting the legislation could look at these issues in some detail.
The second point that was made chimes with some of the points made earlier today in relation to inlay, or to ivory that is integrated very much into the particular object. That applies to the pipes. It would be very difficult to somehow unpick the ivory content of the Northumbrian pipes. In some ways that is a good thing: they cannot be unpicked to sell on the ivory,
because the pipes would become unplayable. That, therefore, adds to the problematic situation of the supply of new instruments in the piping market, due to the lack of pipe makers making new sets of pipes.
It is because the percentage rule does not help and is not really clarified with regard to the pipes that I have phrased my amendment in the way that I have, and asked for an exemption for any pipes that were made legally before the legislation comes into force. Given the limited number of pipes, I do not think that is a huge ask, but there may be ways of working out a narrow exemption to help the pipes—technically speaking—but this would mean that the officials and Ministers responsible for the Bill would really need to look at this issue much more closely than seems to be the case so far. I welcome the fact that no new pipes will ever be made with ivory, but I repeat that simply banning entirely the sale or hire of second-hand instruments risks causing great damage to our musical tradition.
The Minister and my noble friends today have on many occasions mentioned the consultation that took place. The Northumbrian Pipers’ Society responded to the consultation in a measured and thoughtful way, but no response came to it from the Government. It put its views into the consultation and heard nothing more. There was no evidence that anyone took any notice of its views and, therefore, I am still very anxious that its views should be taken into account, even at this stage.
During the debate today, a number of points were made by the Minister and by others, which I should like briefly to address. One of the important ones was the coach-and-horses point: that an exemption could drive a coach and horses through the Bill. However, I cannot see that a narrow and limited exemption for the pipes could drive such a coach and horses through the Bill, particularly given the very distinctive nature of what we are talking about.
Another point that has been mentioned many times during the debate has been the fear—which I share—of fuelling the international demand for ivory, particularly in the Far East. I have to say that I cannot remotely imagine that allowing the sale of sets of second-hand Northumbrian pipes could possibly fuel the demand for ivory in the Far East and I cannot believe that far eastern traders or consumers will be clamouring for such second-hand sets of Northumbrian pipes, particularly given that, if you tried to dismantle the ivory, you would ruin both the pipes and the ivory. The pipes, I should stress, are small instruments. The alternative name for the Northumbrian pipes is the Northumbrian smallpipes, and that describes what we are talking about.
The Minister has, rightly in my view, said that the Bill provides for narrow and limited exemptions. That is precisely what I am asking for here: a narrow and limited exemption. I share the view that has been expressed that we want to make swift progress with this Bill; I certainly was not wanting to delay its passage through either House of Parliament. But one of the strengths of your Lordships’ House as a revising Chamber is precisely the fact that it goes through legislation carefully. I think that, in this case, we need to be more careful about the effects of what it is that
we are proposing. As the chairman of the Northumbrian Pipers’ Society, Andrew Davison, has said, this is not a plea to be able to continue to trade in ivory. It is a plea to be able to continue to sell and hire a distinctive musical instrument that was purchased perfectly legally and whose continued availability is crucial to our musical tradition in the north-east of England.
The purpose of my amendment is simply to bring this issue once again to the attention of the Government, with the hope that, between now and Report, a way of addressing the pipers’ concerns, and safeguarding our precious and unique regional heritage, is found. I hope that the Minister and my noble friends will respond sympathetically.