I am very grateful to the Minister for his intervention and for the indication that he has given. My amendments extend to Clauses 8 and 9; what he has said is an indication of the way the Government are minded to go on Clause 7, but I must introduce my amendments in relation to Clauses 8 and 9 as well.
The provision relating to Northern Ireland, to which the Minister referred, is what we find in Clause 7(7)(f), which indicates that,
“regulations under subsection (1) may not … amend or repeal the Northern Ireland Act 1998”.
That provision is then substantially qualified in a way one can only understand by reading through the schedules. I am not clear whether the Minister is proposing that the Scotland Act and the Government of Wales Act should be qualified in the same way, but if he intends to qualify them, my amendments are unqualified. It is therefore appropriate for me to explain why my amendments are in the terms they are. Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, will appreciate why I need to set this matter out in a little bit of detail and explain why I have brought the amendments forward.
As we have seen, these three clauses confer a very wide power on a Minister of the Crown to make provisions by regulations. That includes a provision to which attention has not been drawn until now, but which is certainly relevant to the amendments in this group: a Minister of the Crown may make a regulation of the same kind that could be made by an Act of Parliament. We find that in Clause 7(5), Clause 8(2) and Clause 9(2). I need not go over what these clauses deal with but, broadly speaking, in Clause 7 the power is to enable a Minister to deal with,
“any other deficiency in retained EU law, arising from the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the EU”.
In Clause 8, the power is to enable a Minister to,
“prevent or remedy any breach, arising from the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the EU, of the international obligations of the United Kingdom”.
In Clause 9, it is a wider power to enable the Minister to,
“make such provision as the Minister considers appropriate for the purposes of implementing the withdrawal agreement if the Minister considers that such provision should be in force on or before exit day”.
Each of these clauses is limited in some respects by saying that regulations made under them may not do certain things. The Committee has heard about that in earlier debates today, such as in relation to sentencing, the creation of criminal offences and so on. These amendments seek to add two further limitations. One is that the power under these three clauses may not be used to modify the Scotland Acts and the government of Wales Acts without the consent of the Scottish Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales, as the case may be. As I mentioned earlier, the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, is seeking to make similar provision in relation to Northern Ireland. Amendment 148 goes a little further than that: it builds in an additional provision
relating to the Ministers of the devolved institutions. These are the subject of the group after next, which we will come to later this evening. I will not develop that aspect until we get to that group.
The scale of the transfer of legislative competence to Ministers of the Crown, provided for by these clauses, raises concerns of a fundamental nature. This is not only about the balance of power between Parliament and the Executive, as the Constitution Committee pointed out in paragraph 158 of its report, it also raises concerns about the balance of power within the union and the future of the devolution settlements themselves, referred to in the same report at paragraph 243. Some of what I will be saying in a moment will be directed only to the Scotland Act, but it should be understood as applying equally to the Government of Wales Act and the Wales Act, which are referred to in my amendments.
As I understand the wording of these clauses, if they are left as they are the powers could be used to change the constitutional balance of powers between the UK Government and the devolved institutions which the relevant devolution statutes set out. An aspect worth stressing is the width given to the meaning of the word “deficiencies” in Clause 7. We see it set out at length in subsection (2), supplemented by subsection (3). It is extremely wide and can be widened still, as we can see, given the power in subsection (3). The provisions in Clause 7(6) are about the transfer of functions from EU entities or public authorities in member states to public authorities in the United Kingdom, which would, of course, include public authorities in the devolved areas of Scotland and Wales.
The Committee needs to bear in mind the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Wilson of Dinton, in his speech last Wednesday morning about the width of Clause 7; the meaning to be given to the expression “Minister of the Crown”; and the numbers of people who could be embraced by that expression. The point which was of particular concern to me in the amendments in this group is that the power includes a power to make any provision that can be made by an Act of Parliament. I appreciate that the provision in Clause 7 is time limited. This is also true in the case of Clause 8. In Clause 9, the power is not exercisable after exit day. Nevertheless, as these clauses stand, and while they continue to have effect, it would be open to a Minister of the Crown to modify the Scotland Acts and government of Wales Acts in a way that, as I mentioned earlier, could shift the constitutional balance, and to do so without even consulting the Scottish Parliament and the National Assembly for Wales, let alone obtaining their consent.
A particular part of the Scotland Act which is quite vulnerable to an inadvertent amendment without that process of obtaining consent is the detailed wording of Schedule 5. I was involved, as was the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, in considering the Bill which gave rise to the Scotland Act 1998. We sat until late in the night—indeed, early in the morning—dealing with that Bill and went over Schedule 5 in some detail. It has survived very well over the years since devolution, but it contains considerable detail which could be adjusted a little. That would alter the
balance between the UK Government and the Scottish Government in a way that should not be done without the consent of the Scottish Government.
I appreciate that Ministers may say that it is not their intention to modify the Acts in this way, but it is well known that there is a high degree of mistrust between the devolved institutions and the UK Government about where this legislation is going. Personally, I regret that but, from a Scottish point of view, the reason is not hard to find. As one reads through these clauses, and looks at them from the approach of the Scottish Minister, or the Scottish Parliament or, indeed, a lawyer who has dealt with the devolution system since it first came in, it is striking that—apart from Northern Ireland—there is simply no mention in these three clauses of the fact that there are devolved Governments in Wales and Scotland that need to be considered. That aspect causes one some alarm as soon as one begins to read through the Act. It would be desirable to do something about it, if one possibly can. That is why I welcome what the Minister said when I began my speech.
7.45 pm
Coming back to the power to provide by regulation something that could be done by an Act of Parliament, one is immediately drawn to thinking about the Sewel convention. If the modification which is being proposed were to be the subject of a Bill coming through both Houses in this Parliament, that convention would come into play and, in accordance with it, a question would be asked about whether the consent of the Scottish or Welsh legislatures should be obtained. The convention does not apply to delegated legislation, only to primary legislation. The power which is being given by these clauses enables Ministers to bypass the Sewel convention. No doubt that is not their intention, but that is the way it may seem to be from the standpoint of the devolved institutions. That is a reason for regarding these clauses with some concern and suggesting to the noble Lord that Ministers ought to consider very carefully how they can deal with the principle of the Sewel convention in a way that gives comfort to those who are concerned that the convention and the principle behind it might be breached.
The noble Lord has said enough about Clause 7 for me not to have to go into any further detail about it, except to draw his attention to the need for clarification about how he proposes to word the provisions in relation to Scotland and Wales, given the way Northern Ireland is dealt with in Clause 7(7). Clause 8 deals with the possibility that something may need to be done to prevent, or remedy, any breach of the UK’s international obligations arising from the withdrawal. At first sight it might seem that, since international relations are reserved by paragraph 7 of Schedule 5, there is no need to make any provision in Clause 8 for the devolved institutions. However, so far as Scotland is concerned, paragraph 7 is qualified by a sub-paragraph that I will read out in full. Sub-paragraph (1) having provided that international relations are reserved matters, sub-paragraph (2) goes on to say:
“Sub-paragraph (1) does not reserve—(a) observing and implementing international obligations, obligations under the Human Rights Convention and obligations under EU law”.
The effect of that provision is that observing and implementing international obligations are not reserved and are, therefore, matters for the devolved institutions to deal with as needed.
It is a curious feature of the Bill that there is no attempt to amend the reference to EU law in paragraph 7(2)(a). I may be unduly suspicious but it looks to me as though that provision has been overlooked by those who have drafted the Bill because throughout the Bill, so far as I can see, every other reference to EU law is the subject of a reference to retained EU law, but I cannot find any attempt to amend paragraph 7(2)(a) to the same effect. That suggests to me that whoever drafted Clause 8 has not really appreciated that there is that qualification in paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 5, and has certainly not assessed its effect on the balance of responsibilities between the UK Government and the devolved institutions.
The point is that in a case where there is this division of responsibility between the UK Parliament and the devolved legislatures, it would be sensible, to say the least, to make some provision to recognise the possibility that we are dealing in a given case with a question of observing and implementing the international obligations, not just entering into and giving effect to the relations with the international and foreign bodies. It is the fact that these provisions are related to each other in this carefully constructed balance of settlement that requires attention and is the justification for the amendment I seek to make to Clause 8.
I appreciate that Clause 9 deals with the need to make provisions for the purpose of implementing the withdrawal agreement before exit date. But here again, given that so much of what it may be necessary to look at is devolved, it would be appropriate, if one is to respect the constitutional balance, to make provision in the same way, so that any amendment of the Scotland Act should not be done without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.
I hope I have said enough to indicate to the noble Lord that there is more to this than Clause 7, and there is more to this, particularly with regard to Clause 8, than might have appeared at first because of the provision which I suspect may have been overlooked in paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998.
Without developing the point further at this stage, for these reasons I beg to move Amendment 90.
Amendment 91 (to Amendment 90)