My Lords, I will make clear my strong support for Amendment 90, for the reasons that have been made clear on both sides of this debate, and from my own experience as a trade union member and a manager in the public sector in Wales at different periods of my life. I will confine myself, as I have during the course of the Bill, to the constitutional principles—if I may use the term again—rather than discussing specific subjects.
This is where I have to disappoint three of my noble friends. The noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, is a very old friend—I mean old in terms of our association, since I believe I first met him in a Crown Court in Ruthin in the very early 1960s. I hasten to add that I was not the defendant; my father was a witness there. With the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, I had the pleasure of discussing issues as soon as I arrived in the other place as a very young Member of Parliament. The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, of course came in with me at that time. I shall disappoint all three by expressing my considered view that we no longer need working groups chaired by Secretaries of State—although I recognise that a Secretary of State is present at the Bar of the House today, along with one of his ministerial colleagues.
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After the time that I have spent on devolution legislation in this House, and particularly on this Bill, my view is that we have come to the end of a chapter in the making of devolved legislation as it affects Wales. It has been the chapter of the handing-down of powers, whether in a conferred model or a reserved model. The key issue to me was not how much was conferred or would be reserved, but how much was and will be exempted. That has been the model that has been operating. It is one that I operated for three terms as
the presiding officer in Cardiff and it was never easy, although I had to deal with some Secretaries of State—two of whom are sitting here on these Benches—who always sought to accommodate my constitutional concerns. I am grateful for that, but it should not be about Secretaries of State having to make accommodations with the National Assembly in future. It should be about the National Assembly and the Government of Wales being an equal partner in constitution-building in the United Kingdom.
This view has been expressed strongly by the Welsh Government in their recent submission, before Christmas, to the Supreme Court. We have of course yet to see the results of those deliberations, but the definition of the United Kingdom as an association of equal nations impressed me very much when I first read it in the Welsh Government’s case, as it ties in with the way that I have approached politics and my role in this House. It is now incumbent upon us to argue that any future discussions about the development of the constitution—indeed, any criticism of the existing constitution—should be conducted on a basis of equality between the legislature in Cardiff and the legislature at Westminster.
I know what the Minister will say: he will refer to the sovereignty of Parliament. Of course, as some sort of constitutionalist, I understand what is meant by “the sovereignty of Parliament”, but, with all due respect to this House and the other House, in reality that sovereignty is the legislative aspiration on the part of the Parliament—because, clearly, the sovereignty of Parliament, by its own decisions, has been delegated in different areas. This is the nature of devolution and we are now in a situation where the Parliament at Westminster has devolved powers to Wales and created a legislature that has had primary legislation since 2011. That legislature should therefore be treated as an equal partner in any future discussions.