Scotland Bill

My Lords, if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 2 by reason of pre-emption.

My Lords, I had not expected to be on my feet just at this moment, but I will speak to Amendments...

My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendment 7, which stands in my name, but before doing so I agr...

My Lords, it is probably right that I should now speak to Amendment 6, as set out on the Marshall...

My Lords, I do not often disagree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, but I think he was ...

I draw the noble Lord’s attention to the fact that the heads of agreement built on what he said b...

Indeed. Perhaps I have missed out on this modernisation process that is going ahead, but I unders...

I believe that some of our legislation has now been privatised. Is that not the reason for the no...

All I can say is that it needs a bit of competition, then. I support my noble friend’s amendments...

My Lords, it is always dodgy for bishops to speak about Scottish matters. The kirk has sometimes ...

If the clause is dishonest in the information which it conveys to the public, how can it be wrong...

If the people of Scotland are told, “We toyed with the thought of saying that it was a permanent ...

The fact is that we have a written constitution; we do not have a codified constitution.

I am not sure that I entirely agree with the point, but I will not argue as it would take me down...

My Lords, I have not spoken previously in this debate but am prompted to do so partly because for...

My Lords, as the noble Lord has just indicated, it is very clear that there are implications for ...

On the subject of political reality, is it not the policy of the noble and learned Lord’s party t...

The noble Lord makes a very good point. But under any federal system there would be a Scottish Pa...

Is the noble and learned Lord saying that when the clause heading says:

“Permanence of the ...

Let me get back to political reality. I do not believe that that would happen. But I think it is ...

My Lords, I support Amendment 1. We have heard a lot of intricate and technical arguments and I d...

I want to put to the noble Marquess a point that I mentioned to the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth. The...

I accept the noble and learned Lord’s suggestion. The word “permanent” is the one that concerns m...

I am grateful to my noble friend but I think the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, was referring...

I do not disagree with my noble friend. What I said was that I do not think that heads of agreeme...

My Lords, perhaps I may do my best to introduce a little reality to what has happened in this cas...

My Lords, I shall be brief. I spent 17 years in opposition along the corridor, and there are pres...

In the light of the debate so far, I should like to add something to what I said before. I remind...

My Lords, I had not intended to speak on these amendments because I thought that I would prefer t...

The noble Lord has talked much about the sovereignty of the United Kingdom Parliament, as have ot...

As I do not know the context and full detail of what my right honourable friend the former Attorn...

Does the noble Lord not agree that there is now considerable case law in Scotland which has looke...

That does not surprise me, because I have always taken the view that, ever since we embarked—for ...

My Lords, I am one of the few non-lawyers who are even putting their foot into this particular ho...

I do not agree with the mood of the noble Lord, Lord Lang of Monkton, because I do not share his ...

These are clearly very deep waters, into which a non-lawyer plunges with some concern. I am very ...

What about England? I agree it is not the real world but one can imagine circumstances in which t...

I do not think the noble Lord has quite understood my proposal. My proposal is that the language ...

Does the noble Lord accept that he has very cleverly been answering the conundrum that I put to t...

I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord but I refuse to be drawn into a debate among law...

My Lords, I do not know whether I should have asked for a suit of armour before coming to the Dis...

Can the noble Lord explain how the removal of new subsection (1) would affect the existence of th...

To echo the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, I am not a lawyer and will not get into the deta...

I will just gently point out to the noble Lord, in relation to his point about the use of languag...

The emotional state of the Scottish electorate after the Scottish referendum is still to be analy...

We Scots are quite a canny lot. Is the noble Lord quite sure that Scots would not spot that a dec...

I appreciate what the noble Lord said and apologise for not dealing with his amendment comprehens...

Is there a residential qualification to take part in these debates?

No, and I am sorry if the noble Lord took that the wrong way. However, I spend my life in Scotlan...

First, I thank all noble Lords and the right reverend Prelate for their informative submissions, ...

On that point, all the political parties went into that Smith commission and all of them signed t...

I am aware of the conduct of the Scottish National Party in that regard and do not make any comme...

Can my noble and learned friend give any other example of an extra-parliamentary body—the Smith c...

The proposition is not well founded, with respect. The Smith commission is not binding this Parli...

I am slightly behind my noble and learned friend’s speech, but I wanted to check the facts. He ha...

In the course of the Bill’s consideration, steps have been taken to strengthen the political stat...

Forgive me, but as in the best parliamentary answers, my noble and learned friend is telling me s...

With respect, I rather thought that I had answered the point made by the noble Lord, but let me r...

I am grateful to the Minister because I feel that he may well be making my point for me on the su...

Clearly it is not, because, notwithstanding the outcome of any such referendum, this place might ...

I shall take up the point that the Minister made about Clause 1 as a whole—I think he was referri...

I am obliged to the noble and learned Lord for reminding me of the observations made by the noble...

The Minister said a minute ago that the result of any referendum would not be implemented if the ...

I would be pleased to clarify. We were speaking theoretically in the context of the supremacy and...

My noble and learned friend Lord Hope has pointed out the possible difficulty in the current word...

I am not in a position to say whether he or any other individual falls into that category, and at...

If my noble and learned friend cannot answer that very simple, straight question, does not that i...

On the last point, just to be clear, that is what I am saying.

Maybe I can help the Minister. Perhaps he is saying that this is all just declaratory, because af...

If I can complete the journey around the houses that the noble and learned Lord has begun on that...

Just to carry on a little around the House: the Minister did not make it clear at the Dispatch Bo...

I cannot agree with the interpretation of sovereignty the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, puts forward. ...

I may be able to help my noble and learned friend to get off this line of argument. I have been r...

I do not accept that expression of the position. As I said at the outset, the whole purpose of Cl...

In that case, can the noble and learned Lord expand on the meaning of the Government’s wording in...

It has a purpose inasmuch as it determines that there cannot be abolition without a referendum. I...

Perhaps I may intervene. The noble and learned Lord—I was going to say “my noble and learned frie...

I am obliged to my noble and learned friend. It seems to me that we make no further progress on t...

Perhaps I may return to new subsection (3), which relates to a separate point from the one that t...

I notice what the noble and learned Lord says with regard to new subsection (3) in Clause 1.

Section 1(1) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 also refers to the fact that it is a declaration th...

With respect, it does not appear to me that the two situations are immediately comparable. In tho...

I ask my noble and learned friend to respond more positively and helpfully to the noble and learn...

With respect to my noble friend, I will reflect upon all observations that have been made in this...

Well, my Lords, this has been a quite fascinating debate. I say to the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, t...

Moved by

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

2: Clause 1, page 1, line 9, after “are” insert “re...

My Lords, we have had quite a good debate already—some two hours or more —on Clause 1, but I woul...

Fifty-four.

The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, says under his breath, “54”. I do not wish to go into the half-life ...

My Lords, perhaps I may clarify a point. I would not want to introduce a question mark over the c...

I am most grateful to the right reverend Prelate, but the vow is something that was dreamed up, a...

My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend Lord Forsyth, who is absolutely right. The fa...

My Lords, this is an interesting amendment. I wonder by whom the recognition is supposed to be gi...

My Lords, perhaps I may make a brief observation. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tan...

My Lords, we have spent more than two hours arguing more or less about the number of angels danci...

My Lords, Amendment 2, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, can be legitimately accepted by Min...

My Lords, the Government in their wisdom accepted the Labour amendment in the other place to refl...

My Lords, I begin by making the observation that, without commitment, of course we are listening ...

My Lords, that was an interesting response because, first, my noble and learned friend has underl...

My noble friend is being asked to withdraw the words he is trying to insert because we do not kno...

My noble friend has stolen my thunder. He is absolutely right. The whole point and discussion we ...

I take the point that issues of politics can intrude into questions of drafting, but if the noble...

I was not taking exception to anything. I was simply suggesting to the Government that they got i...

Would my noble friend not wish to call in aid Clause 2 where the Government wish to insert the Se...

That is the same point, and I am trying to get on to Clause 2. I have to say to my noble and lear...

Tabled by

Lord McCluskey

4: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, after first “The” insert “only...

In light of the answer relating to the word “only”, to the effect that it is implied by the use o...

Tabled by

Lord Hope of Craighead

6: Clause 1, page 1, leave out lines 15 to 17 and in...

In the light of what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, said, I understand that he will at le...

Moved by

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

8: Clause 1, page 1, line 17, leave out “Scotland” ...

This amendment again relates to an issue that we touched on in our discussion of earlier amendmen...

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, makes a good point in so far as referenda in one part of ...

My Lords, not to anyone’s surprise, we oppose the amendment. It was our amendment in the House of...

I am obliged to noble Lords. I reiterate that the purpose of the Bill is to implement the recomme...

I am most grateful, but before my noble and learned friend sits down, could he tell me where in t...

There is no express reference in the Smith commission agreement to a referendum. As my noble frie...

My Lords, I believe that this introduces the Welsh element. There would be a profound disinterest...

I know that the noble Lord has not been following our proceedings so closely, but the point being...

Moved by

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

9: Clause 1, page 1, line 17, at end insert—

...

My Lords, I hope I will get a bit of a break after this one. Having argued earlier that it was co...

My Lords, is it not the case that the sovereignty of the UK Parliament is already protected by Se...

My Lords, I compliment the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, on his optimism. The position is clear: we h...

I will not prolong this brief debate unduly, but my noble and learned friend seems to be adopting...

That may well be so, but there is already a declaratory statement in the Act which the Bill amend...

My Lords, I have tried to follow this. It is not unduly easy but it would help me greatly if my n...

Perhaps I can help my noble and learned friend. Throughout this afternoon, he has argued that it ...

It has to be remembered that this Bill is amending the Scotland Act. This provision, which my nob...

The actual wording of Section 28(7), which I do not suppose many noble Lords will have memorised,...

I hesitate to rise again—

I shall give way to my noble and learned friend in a moment. I wish to deal with the points that ...

My Lords, I think that nothing in this Bill qualifies the ultimate sovereignty of the UK Parliame...

My Lords, I put a question to my noble friend Lord Forsyth. Having listened to this argument, doe...

My noble friend puts it so succinctly. I wish that I had the ability to put it as concisely as he...

I apologise to my noble friend Lord Forsyth. I must confess that I was unclear who was intervenin...

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for giving way, but Clause 2 amends Section 28. We ar...

I accept that correction from the noble and learned Lord. I believe that Section 63 would be amen...

My Lords, I think this may be a good moment for me to withdraw my amendment. However, before doin...

The Marquess of Lothian!

The Marquess of Lothian. I am sorry. My noble friend has had so many names that I find it difficu...

The noble Lord is trying to paint a picture of government intransigence. As the Government’s Offi...

For a moment, when the noble Lord referred to the Official Opposition and the unofficial oppositi...

Moved by

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

10: Clause 2, page 2, line 2, leave out “The Sewel ...

My Lords, surely the Government can accept this amendment. The Sewel convention, as its name sugg...

My Lords, I signed this amendment, and support it. I want to reinforce what my noble friend Lord ...

My Lords, it is worth giving support to this amendment and pointing out that the original Sewel c...

My Lords, I back up what my noble friend has said. I was in the House when we passed the Scotland...

My Lords, first, there is the question of whether the heading is a matter for the parliamentary d...

I did take advice on this. The amendment has been tabled so the amendment is in order, surely.